Bivvi bags - advice please

[LinusR]

Hi,
Oh, they didn't tell you did they, The only way to sleep comfortably in a sleeping bag is with no clothes on, which is what I do and always have.
If you wear your clothes they hold sweat and in the morning it will chill you.
You need to try it to believe it first.

I found that out early on - 40 years ago in the Brecon Beacons.

[LinusR]

Hi,
My summer kit my coast ride last year consisted of Off the top of my head-
Cheap synthetic bag two season 600 g
Cheap breathable bivy bag 350 g
Really cheap 5 mm thick foam mat 100 g
Pillow Which is just a pillowcase made from fleece half normal size that you use at home, stuff with your clothes overnight.
One early morning I was a little bit chilled, but it was tolerable.
Six night in bus shelters, two on the bench the rest on a concrete floor.
You knew floor was flat and hard but not that uncomfortable, surprising how comfortable with just a 5 mm foam mat.
Also although open at the front Overhead I was protected from any rain.
The night I was cold was probably on the floor of the glass shelter.
If you are going to camp on grass, once you have located your site I would normally lay the tent on the ground, And lay on the ⛺️ to see it was not uncomfortable and downhill.
This is the trick if the ground is soft grass et cetera then the mat does not need to be that good.
In my youth I found you had to sleep three nights before you actually got a good nights sleep.

Bivy verse tent, it's very simple if it rains and it's windy you will need more gear to match a tent.
If it doesn't rain you can probably get the weight down to about 60% of the tent pack complete all in with a bivy.
I took a waterproof balaclava in case it rained and I was in the open, I didn't need it so I'm not sure how effective it would've been?
Using tent as a pole is a total waste of time, not light and cumbersome to, definitely no weight saving there just a novelty.

One night you're not gonna get much sleep anyway are you, unless you're a really heavy sleeper, As I said further up post Surprising how comfortable just a thin foam Matt is, On grass say 6-9 inches moorland An air bed is simply just extra weight, and not as reliable either.

On the ground on the grass in the open, you are definitely going to need more bedding than any tent, as said.
So if it does not rain it's just temperature you need to worry about.

my gear up post cost me about £40 new.
If you spent £100 on some more quality I can see you using it again for sure.
Sleeping bags you need several and pick the bag for the season and the conditions.

I keep thinking for ideal light weight set up, you need a large bivy where are you can store some of the gear off your bike to protect it from weather and keep it secure.
then all that's needed is some protection for your head, like a light weight umbrella of sorts.
I am still working on the idea
Bivy bag needs no groundsheet
500 m up in a bivy you probably need at least a 1200 g bag in the summer.

Thanks for the above. That's useful to have. I'd like to ditch the sleeping mat but it's one thing I cannot do without. Especially as I have pins in one of my hips and I'm a bit boney in the hip area anyway. I was even thinking of getting a thicker Thermarest like the Neo Air.

I've got a number of sleeping bags and liners to give me a good temperature range and I've camped in the Alps and Pyrenees at over 1,400m so have an idea of what to expect. But years ago I had more energy to lug full camping kit around (and I weighed 10kg less!). I note what you said about needing a 1200g bag inside a bivvy at 500m in the summer. I was hoping a lighter bag would do. Maybe not

[mattheus]

If you take just a little care, mats generally survive most surfaces. (you're sleeping on it, not sledging off PenYFan, right?) But I've gone for inside the bivvy, which moves the problem somewhere else.

I certainly sleep better with mine (it's probably the bulkiest thing I carry!). These things are so personal - a bit like being a "warm/cold" sleeper. Accept that some time/patience is required for experiments. What's the worst that can happen??

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Summer time DARTMOOR, reported overnight temp probably about 8C.
I was in a tent 3 season in a 700 g sleeping bag.
I was a bit chilly, I wear shorts and sandals all year round.
It's only has to be a bit misty With no overnight cloud cover.
You have some experience in camping obviously.
So you might get away with 1000 g bag?

[Zulu Eleven]

Still have (but haven’t used in a long while) a double hooped gore-tex bivvy bag (which had a heavier rubberised base and really lightweight event-style gore-tex on top. Couldn’t recommend it enough. The hooped version is a lot better than just a bivvy bag IMO.

They were very rare, Gucci items, but I suspect that the carinthia made Dutch army hooped bivvy is as good (and a lot easier to get in and out of)

My one(but not me): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCThyi9nTac

Dutch hooped version: https://forcesuniformandkit.co.uk/produ ... -bivvy-bag

[Tangled Metal]

Used to backpack with tarp and bivvy bag few years ago now. I used a Rab survival zone which is what alpkit copied. I got it at an amazing deal price half price or so. The Hunka came out the year later and cost £10 more than I paid for the better Rab SZ.

A mate went bivvying with me after a walking group night out at a remote Lakeland pub. We didn't want to drive home due to intention to drink alcohol. So after night out we hacked up to sourmilk ghyll iirc then kipped under my tarp in flying V and bivvies. His hunka was a competition win from Alpkit and despite paper length were the same his hunka was shorter.

Get the Hunka xl!

Tarp and bivvy might work out heavier than lightweight tents but plenty of advantages. Ever kipped on top of a hill in 70mph storm in a lightweight tent? I've seen three venerable hilleberg atko get flattened against a user's face but my trekking pole supported tarp never budged at all. I slept through the night. It is amazing what a good, wind shedding tarp pitch can cope with.

Personally tarp and bivvy would be my choice. Another would be to consider a CCF mat. It's potentially lighter and less prone to damage. I'd use it under the bivvy bag to protect the bag but also to allow the sleeping bag to fully loft. Why? Well IME a thermarest wants to flatten. Inside a bivvy bag it causes the bag to flatten squashing the bag. The Hunka doesn't have the footprint for even a tapered TAR IME.

I had a Rubens ccf, very cheap and 130g weight. I cut it to torso shape and size. Lower legs on bag. On moist, fells I found it more than comfortable enough for good night's sleep. It was also small enough not to affect bivvy bag shape too. With a higher rated TAR inside a bivvy I found it colder than a thin CCF outside the bivvy probably due to compression of the down sleeping bag or quilt I used.

[LinusR]

Get the Hunka xl!

Either that or the Rab if it's on special offer.

Tarp and bivvy might work out heavier than lightweight tents but plenty of advantages. Ever kipped on top of a hill in 70mph storm in a lightweight tent? I've seen three venerable hilleberg atko get flattened against a user's face but my trekking pole supported tarp never budged at all. I slept through the night. It is amazing what a good, wind shedding tarp pitch can cope with.

I won't be going out in that sort of weather. Just want a bit of warm kip without having to lug too much around. I can't sleep on a foam mat. Thanks for the insight.

Still have (but haven’t used in a long while) a double hooped gore-tex bivvy bag (which had a heavier rubberised base and really lightweight event-style gore-tex on top. Couldn’t recommend it enough. The hooped version is a lot better than just a bivvy bag IMO.

They were very rare, Gucci items, but I suspect that the carinthia made Dutch army hooped bivvy is as good (and a lot easier to get in and out of)

My one(but not me): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCThyi9nTac

Dutch hooped version: https://forcesuniformandkit.co.uk/produ ... -bivvy-bag

That's the sort of bivvy I was originally considering. But my Saunders 4 season tent is pretty much the same weight and only slightly bigger. I'll be experimenting with a few set ups in the spring. Probably going to get something like the Hunka or similar, if anything.

[nsew]

Bivvy and tarp is a fantastic way to travel with very few (but manageable) downsides. It’s incredibly easy to camp stealthily in places where you would never consider a tent. I’m 6ft plus and slim. For a five month trip to Barcelona through the Massive Central and Pyrenees and back I used the Hunka XL, a minus 5 bag, Snugpak Basha tarp and a Jack Wolfskin Gossamer groundsheet (150d). The overkill groundsheet is a necessity for this type of travel. The tarp (64” x 98”) would of ideally been a foot longer and a foot wider. The Hunka XL would not take a large mattress inside but would definitely take a regular mummy shaped mattress. No need to carry poles as cutting and shaping a suitable branch or two was a doddle. 2nd photo was my spot in Barcelona for 3 weeks.

[nsew]

Where camping with a tent is illegal, an overnight bivvy is not. More pics.

[LinusR]

More pics.

What mattress is that?

[nsew]

A large early model Neo Air Venture. Tough but non too warm, 1.8 tog value I believe. 275g Gossamer groundsheet here for £11

https://www.campingworld.co.uk/en/Jack- ... nerID=1591

[LinusR]

Bivvy and tarp is a fantastic way to travel with very few (but manageable) downsides. It’s incredibly easy to camp stealthily in places where you would never consider a tent. I’m 6ft plus and slim. For a five month trip to Barcelona through the Massive Central and Pyrenees and back I used the Hunka XL, a minus 5 bag, Snugpak Basha tarp and a Jack Wolfskin Gossamer groundsheet (150d). The overkill groundsheet is a necessity for this type of travel. The tarp (64” x 98”) would of ideally of been a foot longer and a foot wider. The Hunka XL would not take a large mattress inside but would definitely take a regular mummy shaped mattress. No need to carry poles as cutting and shaping a suitable branch or two was a doddle. 2nd photo was my spot in Barcelona for 3 weeks.

Thanks for this info. Good to know. Love the photo of the set up among the red and white road blocks! I did a three month trip across France and Spain twenty years ago. Often just slept in the sleeping bag on top of the mat as the weather was so good. But then spent seven days of rain riding back through France. Tent didn't leak, but it was wet packing it up and unfolding it again every day for a week.

[LinusR]

A large early model Neo Air Venture. Tough but non too warm, 1.8 tog value I believe. 275g Gossamer groundsheet here for £11

https://www.campingworld.co.uk/en/Jack- ... nerID=1591

Looks a good, comfy mat. Better than my 20-year-old Thermarest. That groundsheet would be useful.

[nsew]

Bivvy and tarp is a fantastic way to travel with very few (but manageable) downsides. It’s incredibly easy to camp stealthily in places where you would never consider a tent. I’m 6ft plus and slim. For a five month trip to Barcelona through the Massive Central and Pyrenees and back I used the Hunka XL, a minus 5 bag, Snugpak Basha tarp and a Jack Wolfskin Gossamer groundsheet (150d). The overkill groundsheet is a necessity for this type of travel. The tarp (64” x 98”) would of ideally of been a foot longer and a foot wider. The Hunka XL would not take a large mattress inside but would definitely take a regular mummy shaped mattress. No need to carry poles as cutting and shaping a suitable branch or two was a doddle. 2nd photo was my spot in Barcelona for 3 weeks.

Thanks for this info. Good to know. Love the photo of the set up among the red and white road blocks! I did a three month trip across France and Spain twenty years ago. Often just slept in the sleeping bag on top of the mat as the weather was so good. But then spent seven days of rain riding back through France. Tent didn't leak, but it was wet packing it up and unfolding it again every day for a week.

It’s definitely the most invigorating and hence memorable mode of travel. Such an easy pack. Simplicity. I overcame buggy areas by sleeping in a peaked cap with a long silk liner pulled up and over. Its odd how well that worked but soon learnt to make camp away from those areas. I would of jumped a train with that amount of rain. Those older thermarests are tough. I’m hooked on the Neo-Air Lite’s but always kill them to the point of not being able to leave without a new one.

[Tangled Metal]

Where camping with a tent is illegal, an overnight bivvy is not. More pics.

Not actually sure that's true. Where is your source for that exemption?

Both tent and tarp/ bivvy are leave no trace shelter systems, well so long as you don't cut down branches for poles if course. So I really don't know how you'd distinguish between them through legal instruments.