Vitamin D - how much?

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Jdsk
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Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by Jdsk »

We didn't evolve at such high latitudes with so little UV light. The need for additional vitamin D probably arose because we migrated north, and is quite recent. Pale skin ditto.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_skin

Jonathan

PS: I wouldn't put that need in quotes. This is a serious health problem. And it's cheap and easy to avoid.
rualexander
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Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by rualexander »

foxyrider wrote:I sometimes wonder how the human race has survived over the millenia if we 'need' all these supplements just to 'survive' in the 21st century.

It's a vitamin, so by definition yes we do need it.
If we aren't getting enough from natural sources such a sunlight and food, then we need to supplement it to maintain good health.
ANTONISH
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Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by ANTONISH »

foxyrider wrote:I sometimes wonder how the human race has survived over the millenia if we 'need' all these supplements just to 'survive' in the 21st century.

Well of course the human race has survived over the millenia but individual life expectancy may not have much exceeded that needed for reproduction.
As I understand it Vit D helps in the uptake of calcium and Europeans generally no longer have to survive with rickets ( which was a common condition in the 19th and earlier 20th centuries ).
That's what I believe to be the case but there are others more knowledgeable than myself.
I take the Vit D supplement in the hope that along with strength training I will retain my bone strength.
Jdsk
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Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by Jdsk »

ANTONISH wrote: As I understand it Vit D helps in the uptake of calcium and Europeans generally no longer have to survive with rickets ( which was a common condition in the 19th and earlier 20th centuries ).

It does.

Oral supplementation in the 1920s and 1930s was a wonderful piece of scientific medicine. Unfortunately we still have some rickets. And a lot of avoidable disease in adults because of deficiency

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by Jdsk »

ANTONISH wrote:I take the Vit D supplement in the hope that along with strength training I will retain my bone strength.

Very wise.

Of course the most important thing in choice of exercise is finding forms which you'll maintain for as long as possible. For other people it might not be "strength training". For bone health including some weightbearing exercise is generally recommended.

"Exercises for strong bones"
https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/exercise/exercises-for-strong-bones/

Jonathan
munroad
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Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by munroad »

Vitamin D is a steroid hormone made by the action of sunlight on the skin. Small amounts are found in food, especially oily fish. None is made by sunlight at UK latitudes between October and March. It is essential to prevent Ricketts and about 400 units a day as a supplement will achieve that. However it has many more functions apart from maintaining bone health. About 17 tissues have vitamin D receptors, but especially important is its effect on immunity. Vitamin D deficient individuals are susceptible to respiratory infection. The big question is 'what is deficiency?'
Levels above 50nmol/L are just about sufficient. Some endocrinologists consider the optimum level for immunity to be 125nmol/L.

I took 2000 units a day from March to September which gave me a blood level of 99 mol/L .I have increased the dose for winter. A friend took no supplement and had a level of 120 mol/l.
Many GPs will not know this, nor indeed the importance for immunity. It begs the question "Why do T cells have Vitamin D receptors?" For a bit of light reading do a search for vitamin D and immunity.
I (retired consultant physician) would suggest 2000 - 4000 units a day to be adequate and safe. If you have sarcoidosis or metabolic bone disease it is best avoided. People worry about taking too much. You need to take 10000 units a day for months to do this.
GP's may not be keen to to check blood levels. Kits are available on line to send a finger prick sample off for about £30.
It also seems to have a role in auto immune disease such as Rheumatoid arthritis and inflammatory bowel disease.
Pendodave
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Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by Pendodave »

munroad wrote:It also seems to have a role in auto immune disease such as Rheumatoid arthritis and inflammatory bowel disease.

Can you elaborate on this? (I have a family member who has a history of auto immune problems)
Thanks.
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Mick F
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Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by Mick F »

munroad wrote:I took 2000 units a day from March to September which gave me a blood level of 99 mol/L .I have increased the dose for winter. A friend took no supplement and had a level of 120 mol/l.
You haven't explained any of this.

You took 2000 units for the summer and in the winter increased it to what?
Did the friend take no supplements at all? No Vit D supplements? Never, throughout the year?
Why was yours so low despite the supplements and your friend's level was acceptable?
Mick F. Cornwall
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Paulatic
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Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by Paulatic »

Mick F wrote:
munroad wrote:I took 2000 units a day from March to September which gave me a blood level of 99 mol/L .I have increased the dose for winter. A friend took no supplement and had a level of 120 mol/l.
You haven't explained any of this.

You took 2000 units for the summer and in the winter increased it to what?
Did the friend take no supplements at all? No Vit D supplements? Never, throughout the year?
Why was yours so low despite the supplements and your friend's level was acceptable?

I think it’s because we all have different abilities to process and use Vit D. As I’ve said before when I was loosing flesh, despite a good appetite, years ago Vit D was the last thing they looked for because I worked outside. I suspect it’s a family thing as my mother had MS which I think can be linked to Vit D.
We’ve prompted our sons to take vit D but it’s fallen on deaf ears. One did ask the doctor for a level test but they refused to give one.
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Mick F
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Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by Mick F »

As I've said up-thread, I've never taken Vit D ever and I don't intend to now.
If it was so important, they would be shouting this from the rooftops.

Never see and advert at the health centre and there's no promotion of it anywhere that I've seen.
Mick F. Cornwall
Jdsk
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Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by Jdsk »

Mick F wrote:As I've said up-thread, I've never taken Vit D ever and I don't intend to now.
If it was so important, they would be shouting this from the rooftops.

Never see and advert at the health centre and there's no promotion of it anywhere that I've seen.

I've already linked to the NHS advice:
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-d/

All similar countries have similar recommendations.

And BTW there are multiple studies showing that submariners are at risk of deficiency, and the RN does offer supplements.

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by Jdsk »

Paulatic wrote:I suspect it’s a family thing as my mother had MS which I think can be linked to Vit D.

Yes, there is a connection but no-one has worked it out yet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D_and_neurology#Multiple_sclerosis

I once retrieved the neonatal screening specimens from people who developed MS (many years later) and from controls as part of a study into this.

There's could be a trip to Stockholm for anyone who pins this down.

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by Jdsk »

munroad wrote:GP's may not be keen to to check blood levels. Kits are available on line to send a finger prick sample off for about £30.

Paulatic wrote:One did ask the doctor for a level test but they refused to give one.

At the population level and for most individuals it's much smarter to take the recommended supplement than to measure anything and dose accordingly.

There are some specific conditions and situations in which measuring the plasma concentration is worthwhile.

Jonathan
Debs
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Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by Debs »

A week ago i attended a hospital appointment for left foot x-ray and consultation with a specialist foot surgeon.
This was primarily to examine accident damage caused to my toe / metatarsal area of left foot, which occurred last year in May.

The x-ray revealed a couple of issues, but a further MRI scan is now required for a more certain diagnosis.
The consultant also referred me to a blood test (straight after the meeting) for a few general health checks, and this to include vitamin D level.

Should get the blood test results soon, so will interesting to see how my vitamin D level is holding up, especially as i've been taking Vitabiotics Ultra vitamin D tablets since December.
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Mick F
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Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by Mick F »

Jdsk wrote:
Mick F wrote:As I've said up-thread, I've never taken Vit D ever and I don't intend to now.
If it was so important, they would be shouting this from the rooftops.

Never see and advert at the health centre and there's no promotion of it anywhere that I've seen.

I've already linked to the NHS advice:
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-d/

All similar countries have similar recommendations.

And BTW there are multiple studies showing that submariners are at risk of deficiency, and the RN does offer supplements.

One, I know you've linked it before. It doesn't mean that it is actively promoted by local health centres.
Two, having spent a career in the RN, and known many submariners, it wasn't true at all. Whether it is now, I wouldn't know.

PS:
They want to put folic acid in bread, and fluoride has been in the water for decades.
Why not put Vit D in bread?
Mick F. Cornwall
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