Cycling UK Forum

Hi All

Which way are you supposed to rock your bike when riding out of the saddle, for example during sprints or climbs?

I've just started riding and have found it easiest to rock the bike to the same side as the leg which is currently driving the cranks. However, this doesn't seem quite logical to me (even though it feels ok), as I assume you rock the bike to shorten the pedal stroke (and therefore should rock the bike to the opposite side)?

Could anyone clear this up for me please?

Thanks

Adam

Adam

This is probably not the best place to get advice about topics like sprinting, either in road or track racing.

Having said that, I'm not sure that riding out of the saddle is something to aim for in any sort of cycling. For normal people, the only time when they are likely to feel the need to get out of the saddle is to have a short change of position to get comfortable, or, more likely, to get up a hill without changing down a gear, especially if they haven't got another gear to change down into. (It is also possible to minimise the effects of bumps by standing and using your legs as shock absorbers but that's not the issue here.)

I think it is generally agreed that standing on the pedals (known when I was a lad as 'dancing' and then 'honking' - no idea what they call it in the 21C ) is wasteful of energy and if you do it a lot on a long ride you will suffer for it later. A lower gear in which you can pedal at a fairly high tempo (or cadence) is usually seen as the best answer. I think most of us admire the sort of rider who can sit still and pedal, rather than appear to be wrestling with their bike. I think that is certainly the most economical use of energy (although I cannot prove it.) Extending that to standing on the pedals, if you have to do it, it's probably best to keep your bike as upright as possible, rather than riving it about. I certainly wouldn't try to develop a pedalling action where you were training yourself to do the opposite of what felt natural.

In the end, there are no marks in cycle racing for artistic impression or even style. It's even less of an issue in everyday cycling, but sitting still and pedalling smoothly is what most cyclists with aspirations aspire to.

i tend to try and keep the bike upright and move my bodyweight from side to side now when I'm grinding uphill on fixed but pantani seems to do it the opposite way to what you describe.riding fixed i tend to spend a lot of the time climbing out of the saddle.
we have the occasional sprint on our midweek ride but I've never really thought about what i do with the bike-I've been doing it that long!
heres a pic.
[img][img]http://forum.ctc.org.uk/userpix/517_Pantani_M4_1.jpg[/img][/img]

What people normally do is pull up on the handle bar that is on the same side as the foot that they are pressing down on - gives a bit more power to the stroke.

However, it's normally said that keeping the bike as straight as poss is more economic as PW91 says.

Keeping the bike straight is much easier if you spin rather than mash.

Although what TC says is technically true - sitting is more economic most of the times, standing does allow you to go faster or up a steeper gradient. To use that awful analogy, the car: sitting is a Smart Car - pootles along, not using much fuel. Standing is the Porsche uses lots more fuel but gets there faster and when things get sillily steep it can keep on climbing longer.

I think that the reason why non-racers stand on climbs is often that they are used to going at a certain speed and llike to try and maintain it even if it takes a little more energy.

Some of us are just awkward - I like to do most of my climbing out the saddle and I sit down now and then to accelerate.

Interesting point that you make, Si. I would agree with you. For some time as a teenager, I studiously practised keeping my bike vertical and moving from side to side (moving to the side that I was pulling up on).

And then...and then I watched sprint finishes in the Tour de France

I'm surprised that they don't come off more often, their bikes tip that much.

if you go on a clubrun everyone climbs in a different way.on one ride I was the only rider climbing sat down on a long climb.on most climbs some are seated and spinning , some seated grinding, others out of the saddle grinding, others spinning.
some throw the bike around others don't.it's a case of finding what suits you.
I'd agree pulling on the bars does help(especially on fixed) though some people on another forum claim to be able to climb without any pulling on the bars.(try that in the dales on fixed into a headwind )
there are loads of videos on you tube, just put pantani ,or any other rider in the search.

piedwagtail91 wrote:I'd agree pulling on the bars does help(especially on fixed) though some people on another forum claim to be able to climb without any pulling on the bars.(try that in the dales on fixed into a headwind )

don't forget the gurning too

Si wrote:
don't forget the gurning too

piedwagtail91 wrote:

Si wrote:
don't forget the gurning too

& the motivational swearing!

COME ON YOU B***H

I think a cyclist will naturally tilt the bike to keep their centre of gravity above the line between the wheels on the road. Since, when honking, you try to push with all your body weight over one pedal, it makes sense that the other pedal is moved to one side, with the pedal you're pushing on vertically below you.

You can, of course, push harder than you weigh if you also pull on the handlebars, but while that provides more torque it also uses up your energy faster. I suspect that using more arm effort to keep the bike constantly upright would take quite a bit of effort for limited gain.

Another benefit of honking, closely related to why tandems and recumbents feel harder to ride up hills, is that the bike can move forwards and backwards relative to your body. So the effects of the uneven pedal force (two pushes per revolution) can be absorbed, allowing the biggest weight, your body, to move more smoothly up the hill.

I'm pretty convinced this is also why lightweight bikes have such an effect on hill-climbing: it's less effort to throw the bike around when honking. It's much better to lose a few grams from the thing that's being thrown around and jerked up the hill (the bike) than from the much heavier mass that's moving up smoothly (the rider).

was watching my riding style today

climbed in the saddle all day...with some pretty tough hills!

tho by the end of a week im sometimes stood up on the bike using my weight to get up the hill as your more tired on a friday

I've been pondering about this myself, the best technique to use for out of saddle climbs, and quick starts from lights etc. Started thinking about it after watching the track championships earlier this year. I had noticed that other than the start they tend to stay seated (better aero I guess) and if they had pushed it to far started rocking their head around (and of course gurning!).

I've spent most of my riding time recently in the saddle, and have noticed how little stamina I have comparatively for out of the saddle climbs, be them sprint like or paced. I seem to get the best out of the standing efforts by imaging my back is where all the force (both legs and arms) is coming from, keeping it in as steady position as possible (ie, not throwing my back from side to side) and pushing a gear a few taller than I would seated, pushing the handle bars forward a little and pulling up a little on the same side as I push down. I think this may be allowing me to put more force into the peddles than just your weight alone, sort of like pushing forward against a wall and digging your feet into the ground. I also tend to try and make sure the power stroke isn't completely up down like 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock, more like 1 o'clock to 7, this in part being due to leaning over the front wheels, and secondly in an effort to smooth the stroke. This is one of the things I'd love to ask a pro or coach about, mainly for interest.

I went mountain biking for the first time in ages about a week ago and I was really surprised to find that I was much more comfortable seated while climbing the very steep sections, as soon as I stood up the gearing was far to low and the motion became very julty, lurching forward with each downstroke and virtually stopping inbetween, and of course there was too much force going through the chain to consider changing up on the slope.

...as for gurning I did see a great gurn on one of the forums, I shall try and find it for your amusement!

Harking back to a thread by ThomasDylan, I think there's an important difference between somebody pedalling a line, and peddling a line. The former is a pedaller, the latter a pedlar. (And to people a lot younger than I am, I think 'line' has more than one meaning.)