annoying shimano

pigman · Post by **pigman** » 2 Jun 2008, 8:40am

apparently teh new 2009 dura ace is out. See ...

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/s ... ased-16751

note that both the front and rear mechs are using a different cable-pull ratio. As the article says, these won't be compatible with previous 10 speed systems.

Now, is this some genuine improvement or am I being over cynical in suggesting shimano is trying to get everyone to upgrade and run out the old system.

One thing I have admired with shimano is that the different groupsets and old and new systems were always compatible.

So boo shimano

reohn2 · Post by **reohn2** » 2 Jun 2008, 9:18am

Yeah boo Shimano on this one for me too.I do get tired of so called 'improvements'.
OTH campag have gone eleven!!!!!!!!!! rear on their new Super(?)Record Gruppo I believe and a 25% increase in price across the board I'm told,so its six of one and..........

I pity the poor beggers who actually do think these things are an 'improvement'

WesBrooks · Post by **WesBrooks** » 2 Jun 2008, 10:13am

...could the change in ratios be a precursor to the electric shifters?

reohn2 · Post by **reohn2** » 2 Jun 2008, 11:14am

WesBrooks wrote:...could the change in ratios be a precursor to the electric shifters?

Something else we don't need

WesBrooks · Post by **WesBrooks** » 2 Jun 2008, 12:01pm

reohn2 wrote:Something else we don't need

yeah I thought this too to begin with then my love of all things technical forced me to look into them a little more. There are a number of features on these that will improve the riding experience, such as automatic calibration, on the fly auto adjustments to avoid chain rub, shift force adjustment dependant on current torque, quicker shifting and easier shifting - fire and forget comes to bikes!

Only thing I won't like will be the cost.

As far as the technical gadgets go though, the thing I would most like to see would be a infinitely variable hub gear that doesn't weigh a ton with decent efficiency.

ianr1950 · Post by **ianr1950** » 2 Jun 2008, 12:01pm

Bring on all the new kit I say.

Post by Si » 2 Jun 2008, 12:06pm

WesBrooks wrote:As far as the technical gadgets go though, the thing I would most like to see would be a infinitely variable hub gear that doesn't weigh a ton with decent efficiency.

Never happen, saddly. Oh it might be technically possible, but then shimano/campag wouldn't be able to bring out a new grouppo with an extra sprocket every year.

reohn2 · Post by **reohn2** » 2 Jun 2008, 12:29pm

ianr1950 wrote:Bring on all the new kit I say.

Go nicely with the carbon frame eh :wink:

WesBrooks · Post by **WesBrooks** » 2 Jun 2008, 12:33pm

Si wrote:Never happen, saddly. Oh it might be technically possible, but then shimano/campag wouldn't be able to bring out a new grouppo with an extra sprocket every year.

It's on it's way. CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission) is already available but weighs a metaphorical ton (rumors around the 4kg mark) and IVT (Infinitely Variable Transmission) is at a concept demonstrator stage. Give me a couple of minutes and I'll post links and explain more...

pigman · Post by **pigman** » 2 Jun 2008, 12:38pm

reohn2 wrote:
ianr1950 wrote:Bring on all the new kit I say.

Go nicely with the carbon frame eh

... and the lightweight wallet that will result

WesBrooks · Post by **WesBrooks** » 2 Jun 2008, 12:40pm

Firstly before you look at the IVT link please bare in mind that this is a concept demonstrator. At the moment it is HUGE but the developer says it will be made hub sized soon. Of course it's much easier and cheaper to build a prototype large, refine the mechanism then shrink to reduce the number of potential problems to overcome at any one time.

Youtube IVT

Youtube CVT Link

The definitions are as follows CVT potentially has an infinite number of ratios available from a ration above 0 to another ratio above zero. IVT has a 0 and possibly even reverse ratios. The benefit given by IVT is you can potentially have a ridiculously high top ratio and still be able to use ratios at which you could slog up seriously steep hills at a reasonable cadence.

Post by Si » 2 Jun 2008, 1:10pm

'Looks' interesting but no speakers so couldn't get the sound. If they should develop one of a reasonable size and weight I'll be in the queue, although I fear that they might make a Rohloff look cheap until they catch on.

WesBrooks · Post by **WesBrooks** » 2 Jun 2008, 1:17pm

I'll certinally be interested. The NiVinchi ones are cheaper (on ebay) than the Roloffs, but have a smaller range of ratios (although greater resolution within that range), and are heavier. I'll try and dig out a riders review I found a while back.

WesBrooks · Post by **WesBrooks** » 2 Jun 2008, 1:19pm

NuVinci Review

ianr1950 · Post by **ianr1950** » 2 Jun 2008, 1:36pm

pigman wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
ianr1950 wrote:Bring on all the new kit I say.

Go nicely with the carbon frame eh

... and the lightweight wallet that will result

Whats money for if not for spending. :evil:

There will always be those who buy any new kit as soon as it appears and there will always be those who are perfectly happy to keep with what they have.
I don't have a problem with either and I make a change if and when I feel it is worthwhile to do so.