Cycling UK Forum

Pebble wrote:

roubaixtuesday wrote:

Pebble wrote:
If we remove principalities etc like Monaco, Honk Kong, Singapore etc and look at proper size countries with a populations greater than lets say 5 Million then England is 4th, Only Rwanda, Bangladesh and South Korea are more tightly packed in

Governments like rapid population growth, it increases GDP and hides debt and borrowing - horrible short term politics, population growth is not sustainable at an economic level let alone an environmental level. More and More people is utter madness.

This is incorrect. Just for instance, the Netherlands (pop 17M) has a density of 488 per km2. UK is 275, England (why you want to count it separately I know not( 432.

I suggest you find a more reliable source.

NL 17,280,000 / 41,543 = 416 per sq km (where do you get 488 from?)
England 55,980,000 / 130,395 = 429 per sq km

(why separate - I'm voting YES next time around and will be on the winning side ) Sad to wave you's all goodbye but you have been badly managed for decades and are about to go down the pan, you have destroyed all your wildlife and wild places, become stupidly over crowded, chose a complete buffoon to lead you and seem intent on self destruction.

I apologise, there are multiple figures available for the Netherlands and I just took the first one I saw.

The world bank gives an even higher figure of 511/km2

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN ... s=NL-GB-BD

I don't know which is more accurate.

The fact remains that the uk has a far lower pop density than many other countries.

Oldjohnw wrote:just for the record: I haven't destroyed all our wildlife and places, become stupidly overcrowded or chosen a complete buffoon to lead us. I don't think most people in England have, either.

That we have destroyed all our wildlife (in the UK) is probably quite close to the mark. Of course we (as in this or the two or three preceding generations) didn't do this; and the damage started to be done with Mesolithic/ Neolithic man. Countries like the Netherlands and Belgium are in no better situations.

If we are to maintain or restore habitats we can't have a constantly expanding human population. People leave other countries because they are led by even greater buffoons, such countries have no tradition of democratic progress, no slow accumulation of human rights and are often hidebound by archaic religious practice.

Mick F wrote:

francovendee wrote: .................. and wars making life impossible, plus the lure of a better life in the west is something that will be hard to stop.

Why don't we open all the borders and let them all in?
When they flood here, we then all leave to go to where they've all left and then set up a new country and leave the immigrants to it.

Give it few decades without the UK welfare state to support them, and they'll be flooding back to where they left in the first
(All said tongue in cheek of course!)

I'm not suggesting we open our doors and let everyone in. I'm pointing out the flood of people trying to get a safer/better life in the west will only get worse with the effects of climate change. When you say 'we all leave' where do you suggest?
You, as ex navy man have seen far more of the world than me, so where would you propose as offering something similar or better than the UK?

I think the government will be rather pleased that the relatively few making the crossing has made headline news. It takes away focus on their inept handling of the C19 outbreak, getting an agreement with the EU and the state of the economy.

Ben@Forest wrote:

Oldjohnw wrote:just for the record: I haven't destroyed all our wildlife and places, become stupidly overcrowded or chosen a complete buffoon to lead us. I don't think most people in England have, either.

That we have destroyed all our wildlife (in the UK) is probably quite close to the mark. Of course we (as in this or the two or three preceding generations) didn't do this; and the damage started to be done with Mesolithic/ Neolithic man. Countries like the Netherlands and Belgium are in no better situations.

If we are to maintain or restore habitats we can't have a constantly expanding human population. People leave other countries because they are led by even greater buffoons, such countries have no tradition of democratic progress, no slow accumulation of human rights and are often hidebound by archaic religious practice.

Yes we have. But pebble said all we in England had done these things including electing Johnson, as if Scotland were blame free. I never chose Johnson so don't blame me. And Scotland has bare hillsides and people drive cars. And they go on flights and some break lockdown. It was one very silly and divisive comment made by pebble. It was an argument for independence based on hate of English or simply England v Scotland. There are many good reason ls for independence but hate of English is not a good one. Hate the government by all means - I do - but don't put us all in the same boat. Like the banners I saw a mile or so from here on the border saying "English keep out".

Oldjohnw wrote:Yes we have. But pebble said all we in England had done these things including electing Johnson, as if Scotland were built free. I never chose Johnson so don't blame me. And Scotland has bare hillsides and people drive cars. And they go on flights and some break lockdown. It was one very silly and divisive comment made by pebble. It was an argument for independence based on hate of English. Like the banners I saw a mile or so from here on the border saying "English keep out".

I hadn't seen the Scottish connection, but you're right, their wildlife is in no less a parlous state than ours. I read an article about seriously declining Scottish sea birds last year and though Scotland is in the middle of a massive afforestation project it seems this is very much economically led - it's not about biodiversity. If it wasn't SNP led they'd be complaining about it.

Morning, It is quite correct that the UK doesn't actually have an "Open Door" immigration policy, in fact we don't have any policy at all!
Successive governments have practised fudge & humbug, scared to be called out by the folk here who do believe in an "Open Door Policy", who want to be seen as bearers of largesse!
My late parents were typical of folk on he council's housing waiting list? Put their names down in 1945, but died in 2010 without sight of moving up the list! Always being leapfrogged, typical.
Many of us can tell of the housing malaise that is the UK! IGICB MM

Afforestation in Scotland? What sort of trees, where, how high above the sea?

merseymouth wrote:Many of us can tell of the housing malaise that is the UK! IGICB MM

Housing malaise is fairly typical of most countries.
Canada has low population density and huge tracts of open land yet house prices are no better than here.

Even in this country there are parts where the population is falling and housing cheap but nobody wants to live there.

For some reason which I've never figured out everyone wants to live down south, particularly around London.
I worked in London for a while. Wages were better but nowhere near good enough to make up for the cost of living and the traffic and thus noise was horrendous.
Wanting to actually live there is beyond my understanding...

merseymouth wrote:My late parents were typical of folk on he council's housing waiting list? Put their names down in 1945, but died in 2010 without sight of moving up the list! Always being leapfrogged, typical.

Perfectly typifies how successful the demonisation of refugees has been.

Did refugees sell off social housing and not replace it?

Do refugees corrupt officials and politicians to allow development to proceed without affordable housing?

Rather than blaming refugees, I suggest looking at who is benefiting from these policies (clue: the exact same people who are blaming refugees and gaining power off the back of their exploitation of fear).

Starting to look like one of hose "Immigrants take all our jobs and live on our benefits" sort of discussions.

Well, It Wasn't Me! MM

merseymouth wrote:Well, It Wasn't Me! MM

Well, you're here on a refugees thread complaining about housing.

So, maybe it is you.

Cyril Haearn wrote:Afforestation in Scotland? What sort of trees, where, how high above the sea?

This is hot off the press:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/dailybusin ... issed/amp/

They're doing a lot of planting in the Lowlands, new woodland creation is probably harder where there's peat and nature designations. Overall I'd guess 65 - 70% of all planting will be conifer, and though some of that will be native Scots pine most won't be native.

Hello Ruby, Keep flinging the insults, natural reaction on your part!
I played no part in the mess that is how we find ourselves, unless you're blaming all who exercised their franchise and voted?
Thatcher did the sell off, never voted for her! Hatton's Army screwed up Liverpool housing, never voted for him!
But consider the abuse of so called social housing? The trade union leader on a very good screw leeched on the housing market! Or the Labour M.P. who lived in a subsidised rent property in Oxfordshire!
Maybe the entire Social Housing set-up needs a proper review, then perhaps some of the bad cases could be eliminated? As it is there are many cases of greed over need in the market.
But also why should anyone believe they have a right to needlessly scrounge. My years have let me see numerous cases of dishonesty in all sector of our community, the haves and the have nots do not have sole bragging rights nor the moral superiority! Much wrong, little effort made to sort the mess out. Tax Fraudsters, Benefit Fraudsters, Insurance Fraudsters all equal in criminality! MM

merseymouth wrote:Hello Ruby, Keep flinging the insults, natural reaction on your part!

Off topic, If you want to make an accusation, please link to the offending post and report it to the moderators.

Disagreeing with someone is not synonymous with insulting them.

On topic, refugees are not responsible for the UK housing crisis.