Cycling as an activity during the Covid 19 outbreak

[Cyril Haearn]

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/cyclists-report-assaults-abuse-pins-4080390

It's worth looking at the photo in this article. Despite riding 1000 miles now during lockdown I've managed to completely avoid all this rubbish but unsurprisingly the vigilantism continues throughout the country. It all seems very bizarre to me as recently I've received more waves and smiles from pedestrians in the countryside than ever.

I have only had courteous and friendly acknowledgement from other cyclists, pedestrians, joggers, dog walkers and drivers - both private and commercial. I cycle about 100 miles a week.

People are more kindlier above the Severn-Wash line

[fastpedaller]

Don't start fights you won't win. "We" have most of the food and I suspect most of the guns.

I'll pass this comment on to Norfolk Police ... then see how much longer you have your guns .....

Would be interesting who has the most guns in civilian life? townies for criminal purposes or country folk for farming etc....!!!

Cheers

My guess would be legal guns in plenty in the Countyside, and illegal guns in the Towns!

[Oldjohnw]

https://www.cyclist.co.uk/news/8089/cyc ... g-distance

[The utility cyclist]

Utility Cyclist wrote:

"Carrying ID, 'proof' etc, seems just like a police state to me. I don't even take my phone out when cycling anymore."

Regardless of the Covid-19 thing, I would have thought that carrying some sort of id was a good idea, particularly if you ride on your own.

I fear UC does not know what a police state is. Whilst I would always be concerned about the police taking power to their heads, and we have had various examples of some police state tendencies from time to time (Blair using the police at a party conference, today the Police acting on government ministers musings rather than law and issuing fines) we are not in a police state. Both of the examples I have quoted could be challenged in court. That makes a difference. Few would say European countries are police states yet all require ID. And the example of an individual carrying various ID was his own initiative, not a legal requirement anyway.

But I do agree that we have to always be vigilant.

a police state is were you are stopped and told to prove your innocence as opposed to them giving a reasonable suspicion you're committing a crime, or arrested for retaining your lawful right to remain silent (happened a few weeks back to someone and also feeling the need to take ID and documents to 'prove' why you are outside.
Additionally massive over reach of powers, unlawful arrest, unlawful penalties using 'laws' that do not exist, using police resources to spy/breach privacy and penalise/threaten innocent people doing nothing wrong, encouragement to grass up your neighbour over any tiny little thing, yet seemingly no time to actually bother with major crime or tackling certain crimes and applying certain laws when they feel like doing so.

That's an oppressive police state, you must have lived in East Germany BITD and think that's all ok!

[Oldjohnw]

Utility Cyclist wrote:

"Carrying ID, 'proof' etc, seems just like a police state to me. I don't even take my phone out when cycling anymore."

Regardless of the Covid-19 thing, I would have thought that carrying some sort of id was a good idea, particularly if you ride on your own.

I fear UC does not know what a police state is. Whilst I would always be concerned about the police taking power to their heads, and we have had various examples of some police state tendencies from time to time (Blair using the police at a party conference, today the Police acting on government ministers musings rather than law and issuing fines) we are not in a police state. Both of the examples I have quoted could be challenged in court. That makes a difference. Few would say European countries are police states yet all require ID. And the example of an individual carrying various ID was his own initiative, not a legal requirement anyway.

But I do agree that we have to always be vigilant.

a police state is were you are stopped and told to prove your innocence as opposed to them giving a reasonable suspicion you're committing a crime, or arrested for retaining your lawful right to remain silent (happened a few weeks back to someone and also feeling the need to take ID and documents to 'prove' why you are outside.
Additionally massive over reach of powers, unlawful arrest, unlawful penalties using 'laws' that do not exist, using police resources to spy/breach privacy and penalise/threaten innocent people doing nothing wrong, encouragement to grass up your neighbour over any tiny little thing, yet seemingly no time to actually bother with major crime or tackling certain crimes and applying certain laws when they feel like doing so.

That's an oppressive police state, you must have lived in East Germany BITD and think that's all ok!

That's police going wild, police excess. It has no legitimacy. Unlawful arrest is just that: unlawful and there is right to the law to overturn. Unlawful penaltiss can be challenged in court. When you have no recourse, that would be a police state. And, as so often, you make stuff up: I never said I thought any of that ok. But we also know since you have frequently said so elsewhere that you think that the whole virus thing is a big con, so you are unlikely to support any level of cooperation.

There is plenty of evidence of police incompetence and excess and not just in these times but that is not a police state. But we also still have human right laws (not forgetting that the current government wants to get rid of them) and the ECHR which are designed to address the very things that the UC refers to.

[Cyril Haearn]

What is the word for police who do not bother doing their duty (enforcing traffic law), so that many are killed and injured? They know what they are doing, they chose to waste time on 'education', property crime, they even make up their own rules and persecute those not breaking the law as in Derbyshire recently

That could be likened, compared, to the situation in the DDR. After 1990 there was a huge increase in 'accidental deaths' there because the western traffic police motto: 'the rules are: there are no rules' was adopted. Under socialism traffic law was enforced too, most people kept their gobs shut and were left alone

[pwa]

a police state is were you are stopped and told to prove your innocence as opposed to them giving a reasonable suspicion you're committing a crime, or arrested for retaining your lawful right to remain silent (happened a few weeks back to someone and also feeling the need to take ID and documents to 'prove' why you are outside.
Additionally massive over reach of powers, unlawful arrest, unlawful penalties using 'laws' that do not exist, using police resources to spy/breach privacy and penalise/threaten innocent people doing nothing wrong, encouragement to grass up your neighbour over any tiny little thing, yet seemingly no time to actually bother with major crime or tackling certain crimes and applying certain laws when they feel like doing so.

That's an oppressive police state, you must have lived in East Germany BITD and think that's all ok!

My own encounters with the police have always been good, with them exercising a light touch. If I have a concern with the police in my area it is that they are too overstretched to deal with a lot of the crime that goes on. Our local police have not been collaring folk out for a ride, though they have been targeting people who have driven to popular parking spots to commence their exercise. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I am aware that not everyone is as lucky as me, with great rides from the front door.

If you want confirmation that we don't live in a police state, here in Wales it is forbidden to go out for exercise more than once a day, but here in my village practically everyone is ignoring that part. Because it makes no sense in our sparsely populated location. A neighbour who I consider normally law-abiding and who generally does stuff "by the book" went out at least three times one day last week! Twice on his bike and once on foot. Does anyone care? No. Are the police opening a file on him? No. The same applies with local dog walkers. So long as folk are socially distancing, and they are , nobody cares about the "once a day" thing. I don't think the police would appreciate a call about that from a curtain twitcher.

[Oldjohnw]

What is the word for police who do not bother doing their duty (enforcing traffic law), so that many are killed and injured? They know what they are doing, they chose to waste time on 'education', property crime, they even make up their own rules and persecute those not breaking the law as in Derbyshire recently

That could be likened, compared, to the situation in the DDR. After 1990 there was a huge increase in 'accidental deaths' there because the western traffic police motto: 'the rules are: there are no rules' was adopted. Under socialism traffic law was enforced too, most people kept their gobs shut and were left alone

If ever there is a death which might possibly be at the hands of the police there is a huge Inquiry. We have a Police Complaints Commission and there is independent lay oversight of police cells, custody suites and prisons. None of this is perfect but that doesn't happen in a police state.

[Cyril Haearn]

Whatabout the comradeship, locker-room culture in the police? Plenty of incidents including deaths are covered up, often the cops stick together at all costs and try to 'protect' wrong-doers among their ranks. Some incidents are cleared up years later, many are not

Most of us on here including me belong to the comfortable white suburban middle class, we have little direct experience, unlike black people in London and elsewhere

[pwa]

Whatabout the comradeship, locker-room culture in the police? Plenty of incidents including deaths are covered up, often the cops stick together at all costs and try to 'protect' wrong-doers among their ranks. Some incidents are cleared up years later, many are not

Most of us on here including me belong to the comfortable white suburban middle class, we have little direct experience, unlike black people in London and elsewhere

I am sure the experience of black people who live in less affluent parts of London are different to my own, that is true. And police wrongdoings are a fact. But I don't know of a large nation with big conurbations that does policing any better than the UK. You will find faults in policing anywhere. One thing that is good about UK policing is that when it is working well it is because it is working with communities, not against them. That is the ideal we aim towards, and it is a good one.

[T-800]

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/cyclists-report-assaults-abuse-pins-4080390

It's worth looking at the photo in this article. Despite riding 1000 miles now during lockdown I've managed to completely avoid all this rubbish but unsurprisingly the vigilantism continues throughout the country. It all seems very bizarre to me as recently I've received more waves and smiles from pedestrians in the countryside than ever.

I have found this too mostly.
Although I did venture over t'border in West Yorks(as I do regularly being so close) and a cyclist from a "local" CC shouted "Oi,get thissen back to Tarn" in a put on Barnsley accent I wouldn't mind but I'm originally a Sheffielder so I talk reyt
I think much of the conflict is media related!

[Oldjohnw]

Whatabout the comradeship, locker-room culture in the police? Plenty of incidents including deaths are covered up, often the cops stick together at all costs and try to 'protect' wrong-doers among their ranks. Some incidents are cleared up years later, many are not

Most of us on here including me belong to the comfortable white suburban middle class, we have little direct experience, unlike black people in London and elsewhere

No-one is denying police wrong doing. Or that sometimes, despite checks and balances, things get through. But that is quite different to a police state. In this country, despite all its many faults, the police are not the final word.

[The utility cyclist]

More police state, Officers not only breaking the law with regards to unlawfully threatening arrest and using it to breach the rights of the citizen to remain silent and given they had not broken a law did not have to give their details, but also assault and breaking the law regards public health for the person on the bike. Absolutely disgusting
https://twitter.com/CouriersYork/status ... 7561476097

[pwa]

More police state, Officers not only breaking the law with regards to unlawfully threatening arrest and using it to breach the rights of the citizen to remain silent and given they had not broken a law did not have to give their details, but also assault and breaking the law regards public health for the person on the bike. Absolutely disgusting
https://twitter.com/CouriersYork/status ... 7561476097

I'd like the other side of that story before jumping to conclusions.

[wirral_cyclist]

More police state, Officers not only breaking the law with regards to unlawfully threatening arrest and using it to breach the rights of the citizen to remain silent and given they had not broken a law did not have to give their details, but also assault and breaking the law regards public health for the person on the bike. Absolutely disgusting
https://twitter.com/CouriersYork/status ... 7561476097

As always the 'most damning' bit is supposedly shown - well unless he's just knocked down two old ladies, or it's a stolen a deliveroo outfit so he can pretend he's essential working whilst delivering drugs.
It could be anything, and the paranoid will always jump to conclusions, heavy handed (ungloved) copper is thec likely response to a lippy smarty pants.