future transport policy

[mikeymo]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52064509
just saw this on the BBC website, although there was little money for cycling in the last budget, if the Government starts to push forward with this then we could see some significant funding coming our way. it sounds fairly good however its real changes and funding which will show its not just rhetoric

...its a nice idea, but it's up against the human/british psyche... before the whole corvid thing, I used to cycle some eight miles down to the stables to help out... on the way back I used to stop at the village shops on the way back.... if the weather was wet then I'd I wouldn't see any other bicycle rider.. if it was dry and sunny I'd possibly count up to twenty.... almost all of them would be riding road bikes, dressed similar, without racks or bags....
Chances are after their ride, they'd shower, change and get in the car to go shopping...
In many respects cycling industry is now fighting against us, by portraying cycling primary as a sporting activity and making it a choice for conspicuous consumption, rather than a useful transport tool....

I don't mind other people cycling the way they want to. You seem to think that yours is the only way to use a pedal cycle. Is not having a rack and panniers now a reason to look down on other cyclists?

"Chances are after their ride, they'd shower, change and get in the car to go shopping..." - you're making a lot of assumptions about other people there. You've followed them all home have you? And so what if they do those things? This is a cycling forum and the people you're talking about cycle. Sounds like a good thing to me, even if they're not cycling in the way you want them to.

As it happens I know cyclists who do the full lycra, carbon bike sports thing and also commute to work. One of them even tried carting his musical instruments around on the bike (don't think it lasted long, he's a keyboards player). Seems to me that people who cycle in one part of their life are more likely to cycle in another part of their life.

The more that people are getting on bikes and cycling, then the more it will become widespread and accepted, and the better attitudes and infrastructure will become.

[cycle tramp]

Not at all..... whenever I see a person on a racing bicycle I always remember the times, when I was alot younger and a damn slight lighter attempting to pedal my heart out trying to maintain 22 miles per hour across the flats of Somerset...
..So, I don't look down on them. I do feel as if they've been lied to.... the ride on my brother's recumbent was an eye opener... 18 mph across the flats with no real effort.. and dead steady at 40 mph when it dropped like a stone down the longest hill... couldn't see over any hedges tho'... anyway I digress.

[cycle tramp]

..anyway back to the point... this thread is about using pedal driven vehicles in everyday life... and for most people that means moving stuff as well as themselves.
And with this in mind a bicycle without a rack is perhaps not as useful as one with. After all if the bike riders that I see, had a rack they could have picked up half a dozen eggs, or a jar of honey, or pickle as they cycled.

[cycle tramp]

...Every time I pick up a cycle magazine, it seems as if the cycle industry seems obsessed with performance (including weight) at any level inspite of any short comings (longevity, ease of maintenance) and as a result may be catering to an ever diminishing market... as more bicycle riders turn away from from chasing ever more smaller returns in their (economic) investment ..
... Racks aren't the only thing which makes a bicycle useful?.. what about some sort of inbuilt security?.. what about better weather protection for the mechanical parts, so you can leave your bicycle out side side in all weathers, for months, without any issues?..What about improving the ease of maintenance?.. what about a set of threaded bosses along the top tube and down tube, so that front rack can be fitted to the frame, thus allowing you to carry large objects without affecting the steering of your cycle?
....The closest town has about eight large industrial estates, all on the flat, and they're building a massive new one, two miles away from me.... Surely the bicycle would be ideal vehicle for short distance trips in that environment? Something with large carriers, perhaps even a trailer hitch, with a simple drive chain and low maintenance brakes... and yet there seems to be no desire from the bike industry to develop such a vehicle.... It may seem like a flight of fancy but could we develop a pedal powered grass cutter for parks and other open spaces or even pedal powered street sweeper or even a pedal powered out board motor?.. ..but if you speak to the industry.......

[mikeymo]

..anyway back to the point... this thread is about using pedal driven vehicles in everyday life... and for most people that means moving stuff as well as themselves.
And with this in mind a bicycle without a rack is perhaps not as useful as one with. After all if the bike riders that I see, had a rack they could have picked up half a dozen eggs, or a jar of honey, or pickle as they cycled.

No. I gave you examples. Two music teachers and the finance director of a training company. All three of them do what I would call "sports" cycling, on lightweight bikes, with all "the gear". And they ALSO use their bikes to commute to their jobs (or did, one of them has retired). Getting to work is a central part of "everyday life" as you call it, for "most people", as you call them. How do you get to work?

I don't know if they use a car to get their shopping, maybe they do. There is no way I could get our weekly shop onto a bike. It's a lot more than "half a dozen eggs, or a jar of honey, or pickle". Do you have a family to shop for? I do.

It seems to me that you are expecting everybody else to somehow fit into your ideal of what cycling is and how it should fit into "everyday life". People have a wide variety of lifestyles, and if they do some cycling as part of that, that's good. I couldn't care less if they've got a rack on the back of their bike (though I do, most of the time).

[cycle tramp]

..anyway back to the point... this thread is about using pedal driven vehicles in everyday life... and for most people that means moving stuff as well as themselves.
And with this in mind a bicycle without a rack is perhaps not as useful as one with. After all if the bike riders that I see, had a rack they could have picked up half a dozen eggs, or a jar of honey, or pickle as they cycled.

No. I gave you examples. Two music teachers and the finance director of a training company. All three of them do what I would call "sports" cycling, on lightweight bikes, with all "the gear". And they ALSO use their bikes to commute to their jobs (or did, one of them has retired). Getting to work is a central part of "everyday life" as you call it, for "most people", as you call them. How do you get to work?

I don't know if they use a car to get their shopping, maybe they do. There is no way I could get our weekly shop onto a bike. It's a lot more than "half a dozen eggs, or a jar of honey, or pickle". Do you have a family to shop for? I do.

It seems to me that you are expecting everybody else to somehow fit into your ideal of what cycling is and how it should fit into "everyday life". People have a wide variety of lifestyles, and if they do some cycling as part of that, that's good. I couldn't care less if they've got a rack on the back of their bike (though I do, most of the time).

I appreciate your time to reply, but I think your taking my posts too personally.. never was the point. I'm not answering your questions, and I won't be asking any personal questions of yourself. Have a Great Easter....

[mikeymo]

I appreciate your time to reply, but I think your taking my posts too personally.. never was the point. I'm not answering your questions, and I won't be asking any personal questions of yourself. Have a Great Easter....

Why not? You've got plenty plenty to say about other people's lifestyles. Oh yes, you can somehow tell what all these other rackless cyclists do when they're not cycling. But you won't answer some simple questions about your own lifestyle.

Then you dress it up with some passive aggressive nonsense about "personal questions", and faux good wishes.

You've been called out, and you won't give a straight answer.

PS, I won't be celebrating Easter, as I don't believe in God.

[cycle tramp]

Well, ok then...
..I've been riding bicycles for about 24 years now... I've tried my hand at racing, and off road, short distance timed events, charity rides and touring, both short and medium distance (LEJOG, Holyhead to Chepstow, to name a few) and both loaded and unloaded.... during that time I've also built around 9 different bikes, hub gears, multispeeds, single speeds, fixed wheels, as I've tried out different things...
The bike in the photo is the only bike I've ridden for the last 4 years. When I worked in the town down the road, it was my commuter (I now work from home) I also do the weekly shop with it, the mid weekly shop, plus the monthly animal feed shop (that's the photo at the top) where the bike is loaded with some 16 kg of feed for the yard. I've a bike trailer in the garage for carrying bedding bales into the yard.
....I've built this bike using simple readily available transmission parts, (5 speed freewheel, 1 chain ring and a thumb shifter) and hub brakes for ease of maintenance... I've also added some stuff to help me, like grease ports in the pedals.... its probably as far as you can get from the bikes featured in magazines, right now.
Mikey Mo was right to say just because I see someone riding a race bike doesn't mean they don't commute on one or do the shopping on one.... Its a good point, and was well made.
However despite the increase in road cycling, in the years, I've not noticed an increase in the number of bicycles parked outside shops and in towns...And that's all over the place, Wells, Glastonbury, Burnham On Sea, year on year out.. at different times of the day too....
....The idea that the cycle industry seems to be constantly moving towards bicycles as a piece of sports equipment rather than as a tool for transportation, isn't my own... it's something that I happen to agree with when I read the essays of bicycle design from Mike Burrows or Rivendell cycles..
..When I look at the photo of my bike, there's alot of room for industry investment... a stronger rear brake would be nice, as would a stronger rear axle... the bike could also stand to have some fixed or inbuilt way of making it secure, and perhaps front rack, like that of a post person's bike may be useful too....
...its all minor stuff, but for the moment the main players of the bike industry seem to be blinkered towards performance, instead of opening their eyes to a greater market

[cycle tramp]

Additional; I'm not against racing bikes, it's good that people are out on bikes in general... I guess after some thought, what I'm really against is the limitation... I don't think I got my point across when I spoke about pickles, honey or eggs, so I'll try again, in a different way..
...Before the corvid19 lock down, there used to be a number of food festivals in this area, in different towns.... one of the more laid back bike clubs, even used to organise their weekly runs around the time table...
Those with racks came home with all sorts of cheeses, sausages, pickles, olives, beer, gin, cured meats, bread, and biscuits... In the end the food festivals provided just as much enjoyment as the cycling itself...
And those without racks either used other bikes or got them fitted, and found that whilst the racks didn't actually make too much noticable difference to their speed, the racks did improve the flavour of their larder cupboard...

[Oldjohnw]

20190819_113031.jpg

Well, ok then...
..I've been riding bicycles for about 24 years now... I've tried my hand at racing, and off road, short distance timed events, charity rides and touring, both short and medium distance (LEJOG, Holyhead to Chepstow, to name a few) and both loaded and unloaded.... during that time I've also built around 9 different bikes, hub gears, multispeeds, single speeds, fixed wheels, as I've tried out different things...
The bike in the photo is the only bike I've ridden for the last 4 years. When I worked in the town down the road, it was my commuter (I now work from home) I also do the weekly shop with it, the mid weekly shop, plus the monthly animal feed shop (that's the photo at the top) where the bike is loaded with some 16 kg of feed for the yard. I've a bike trailer in the garage for carrying bedding bales into the yard.
....I've built this bike using simple readily available transmission parts, (5 speed freewheel, 1 chain ring and a thumb shifter) and hub brakes for ease of maintenance... I've also added some stuff to help me, like grease ports in the pedals.... its probably as far as you can get from the bikes featured in magazines, right now.
Mikey Mo was right to say just because I see someone riding a race bike doesn't mean they don't commute on one or do the shopping on one.... Its a good point, and was well made.
However despite the increase in road cycling, in the years, I've not noticed an increase in the number of bicycles parked outside shops and in towns...And that's all over the place, Wells, Glastonbury, Burnham On Sea, year on year out.. at different times of the day too....
....The idea that the cycle industry seems to be constantly moving towards bicycles as a piece of sports equipment rather than as a tool for transportation, isn't my own... it's something that I happen to agree with when I read the essays of bicycle design from Mike Burrows or Rivendell cycles..
..When I look at the photo of my bike, there's alot of room for industry investment... a stronger rear brake would be nice, as would a stronger rear axle... the bike could also stand to have some fixed or inbuilt way of making it secure, and perhaps front rack, like that of a post person's bike may be useful too....
...its all minor stuff, but for the moment the main players of the bike industry seem to be blinkered towards performance, instead of opening their eyes to a greater market

Great post. ++1.

[mikeymo]

I don't think it's anything to do with "the industry". I think it's cultural. We went to see our son in Munich last summer. The place was awash with bikes, ridden by people who on the whole you wouldn't describe as "athletes". Frequently carrying stuff, including small children.



And of course cycling infrastructure was better.

People buy what they want to buy. The sort of bike you describe is available. The Dutch Bike Shop is well established, for instance.

https://www.dutchbikeshop.co.uk/sparta-dutch-bikes

It's not the fault of "the industry" that people aren't buying the sort of bike you want them to buy. And it seems to me there's a massive industry built around add-ons, from people like Topeak (I've got their slide on rack bag, great idea) for instance. So that you can adapt your bike in many ways. There are plenty of frames available with the necessary lugs to add racks etc.

But if even things like the "Dutch" bikes above, or the add-ons available, aren't quite what you imagine should be getting ridden, then clearly there's a business opportunity here. Let me know when your bike comes to market.

[Jdsk]

European Commission proposals:
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pressco ... IP_21_6776

To support the transition to cleaner, greener, and smarter mobility, in line with the objectives of the European Green Deal, the Commission today adopted four proposals that will modernise the EU's transport system. By increasing connectivity and shifting more passengers and freight to rail and inland waterways, by supporting the roll-out of charging points, alternative refuelling infrastructure, and new digital technologies, by placing a stronger focus on sustainable urban mobility, and by making it easier to choose different transport options in an efficient multimodal transport system, the proposals will put the transport sector on track to cutting its emissions by 90%.

and

The new Urban Mobility Framework will benefit transport users and all the people around them. Cities are home to millions of people. Today's proposal addresses some of the mobility challenges stemming from this intense economic activity – congestion, emissions, noise. The Urban Mobility Framework sets out European guidance on how cities can cut emissions and improve mobility, including via Sustainable Urban Mobility Plans. The main focus will be on public transport, walking and cycling. The proposal also prioritises zero-emission solutions for urban fleets, including taxis and ride-hailing services, the last mile of urban deliveries, and the construction and modernisation of multimodal hubs, as well as new digital solutions and services. Today's proposal maps out the funding options for local and regional authorities to implement these priorities. In 2022, the Commission will propose a Recommendation to EU Member States for the development of national plans to assist cities in developing their mobility plans.

Jonathan

[PDQ Mobile]

Letter in Guardian.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... wrong-path

[VinceLedge]

I don't think it is much of a change in the cycle industry, I have cycled since being a teenager in the 70s and as far as I can remember the mainstream industry has always made and sold bikes mainly with performance and leisure focus.
Exceptions were things like the Raleigh Shopper and some touring bikes. There still seem to be city bikes and tourers being made and specialist manufacturers making a range of other pedal powered machines.
The UK is not (yet?) a place of mass urban cycling and what bikes are sold reflect that unfortunately.