Cycling UK Forum

seems like there may be evidence that covid19 was man made that it escaped from a chinese lab.;

A former head of MI6 has said he believes the coronavirus pandemic "started as an accident" when the virus escaped from a laboratory in China.

In an interview with The Telegraph, Sir Richard Dearlove said he had seen an "important" new scientific report suggesting the virus did not emerge naturally but was man-made by Chinese scientists.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/03/exclusive-coronavirus-began-accident-disease-escaped-chinese/?

mercalia wrote:seems like there may be evidence that covid19 was man made that it escaped from a chinese lab.;

A former head of MI6 has said he believes the coronavirus pandemic "started as an accident" when the virus escaped from a laboratory in China.

In an interview with The Telegraph, Sir Richard Dearlove said he had seen an "important" new scientific report suggesting the virus did not emerge naturally but was man-made by Chinese scientists.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/03/exclusive-coronavirus-began-accident-disease-escaped-chinese/?

Perhaps its a replacement for the failed one-child policy, to keep us from reaching that 10 billion critical mass, eh?

Or it might be that Porton Down is the real source but they took it to China to release then wound up that Dearlove to emit one of his pre-programmed Action Man utterances? (Its part of the Brexit strategy, to get a better deal on landfill fodder at even cheaper prices).

Or maybe it was the aliens, trying to cleanse the planet of a serious parasite before they land to take over and look after it? (I read that in a science fikshun novel).

Cugel, preferring it if it was The Yanks what done it .... but that's just me and my own particular prejoodis.

PS I think it was that virus, though. Comin' over here, with it's evolutionary drive to thrive and prosper....

Is that an important report from the same people who saw WMD in the Middle East?

With no reference given it's mere bluster.

[XAP]Bob wrote:Is that an important report from the same people who saw WMD in the Middle East?

With no reference given it's mere bluster.

Bluster excites the parts that other data cannot reach! Many have a visceral need to blame foreigners for everything. After all, it couldn't be "us" as we are the goodies. Bluster's the stuff to do the excite-'em job. One can obtain many flavours of bluster, wrapped up in newspap like a piece of cod or finny haddock long past eating condition. Very fishy, anyway.

Cugel

You know who I blame....pangolins! It is a well known fact that pangolins enjoy hanging out in markets accompanied by a great deal of other wildlife. In Wuhan, much as in other parts of China.

The Chinese, in their diligence, have tried to shoo the pangolin (and the bats, and the tortoises, and all the other creatures) away from what they call wet markets, but the pangolins just keep on coming back. They, like many other wild animals in the area, have developed the curious habit of forcing themselves into small cages, several to a cage (or sometimes a tank) and in very close proximity to other forms of wildlife.

The Chinese, naturally, are beside themselves and really don't know what to do about the situation.

They were on the verge of cracking down on these peculiar gatherings of fauna, when it just so happened that a virus, which was inside a pangolin, made a little hop, skip and a jump into his friend the bat, who is always hanging out (geddit!) in a cage not too far away with his mates. From there the virus jumped to one of the faultless and entirely blameless Chinese and then some unwitting (not taking fever reducing medicines to evade a quarantine at all) Chinese got on a plane and unknowingly transmitted it on to the rest of humanity.

Poor Chinese, fancy taking the blame for something a bat (or was it a pangolin) did! How racist can people get? What they really want to look into is being species-ist. The sooner the pangolin (and his partner in crime, the bat!) is clamped down on the better.

Nobody is going to accuse the Chinese of coming down too hard on wild (and not so wild) life now, are they?

Freddie wrote:You know who I blame....pangolins! It is a well known fact that pangolins enjoy hanging out in markets accompanied by a great deal of other wildlife. In Wuhan, much as in other parts of China.

The Chinese, in their diligence, have tried to shoo the pangolin (and the bats, and the tortoises, and all the other creatures) away from what they call wet markets, but the pangolins just keep on coming back. They, like many other wild animals in the area, have developed the curious habit of forcing themselves into small cages, several to a cage (or sometimes a tank) and in very close proximity to other forms of wildlife.

The Chinese, naturally, are beside themselves and really don't know what to do about the situation.

They were on the verge of cracking down on these peculiar gatherings of fauna, when it just so happened that a virus, which was inside a pangolin, made a little hop, skip and a jump into his friend the bat, who is always hanging out (geddit!) in a cage not too far away with his mates. From there the virus jumped to one of the faultless and entirely blameless Chinese and then some unwitting (not taking fever reducing medicines to evade a quarantine at all) Chinese got on a plane and unknowingly transmitted it on to the rest of humanity.

Poor Chinese, fancy taking the blame for something a bat (or was it a pangolin) did! How racist can people get? What they really want to look into is being species-ist. The sooner the pangolin (and his partner in crime, the bat!) is clamped down on the better.

Nobody is going to accuse the Chinese of coming down too hard on wild (and not so wild) life now, are they?

Bernard Manning must be worried now! And that Jim Davidson.

Telluz another, go on, go on, go on - you know you want to.

Cugel

mercalia wrote:Should the UK ( World ) seek compensation from China for the damage it's citizens have done?

Globalisation has meant the dubious practices in Wuhan havent stayed there but its consequences spread to the rest of the world? The damage has been immense?

There are limitations as to how far blame for any act can be attributed to any particular country and it should not be forgotten that the Chinese have suffered a lot from this unintended situation too.

If the precedent for compensation is somehow established then IMHO the actions of Mr T and President P (of the USSR as was) must surely deserve compensation too, and there’s a long list of culprits after those two.

Cugel wrote:Bernard Manning must be worried now! And that Jim Davidson.

Telluz another, go on, go on, go on - you know you want to.

Cugel

Wrong again, Cugel. That "joke" was direct from the WHO.

PH wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:I mean liberal politics. If we had more of an illiberal political system we could have locked down sooner and more completely. Perhaps we could have had fewer cases. Instead we're moaning about the pathetic lockdown we have. Italy, Spain and others completely locked down in the end we're not fully locked down yet.

Forget Labour for a moment - even if it had been the Cameron government it would have been cabinet led and I believe an all party approach. As it is this government has been established with Boris as emperor, not that I like that, but it's a complete shambles without him.
BTW - Labour called for a stricter lockdown than the one we have, the wage compensation wasn't as generous but more people would have been eligible and the cap would have been lower and per household.

I don’t disbelieve what you said about Labour but would have liked a reference source. Whatever, I don’t think that the lockdown level was faulty but large and clear breaches of adherence could have been more harshly dealt with. I would agree that compensation should have been both less and capped but as with adherence softness a degree of taking the people with us required some tempering of ideals. Had Labour actually been in power then I believe that they would have taken the same pragmatic choices too.

It’s been interesting to read the thread. I rather hope that we don’t go back to business as usual and instead start to look at our trading relationships with China and other countries. There is a good case for free trade but the consequences on manufacturing ability and diversity in the U.K. have been awful. We need to rethink a lot and simplistically we need to ban imports of goods which undermine our own actual and potential manufacturing capabilities. Certainly goods made in non ethical and polluting ways shouldn’t be for sale here.

Strangely I think that the Chinese might have accidentally done us one favour. Without intending to they have made the World stop and think, I for one do not want to go back to things as they were.

Carlton green wrote: I rather hope that we don’t go back to business as usual and instead start to look at our trading relationships with China and other countries. There is a good case for free trade but the consequences on manufacturing ability and diversity in the U.K. have been awful. We need to rethink a lot and simplistically we need to ban imports of goods which undermine our own actual and potential manufacturing capabilities. Certainly goods made in non ethical and polluting ways shouldn’t be for sale here.

It's a subject worthy of it's own thread. You can't look at the implications of imported goods without first looking at the costs. Our standard of living is built upon the exploitation of others. It is a hypocrisy, everyone wants a fairer World, not many want to pay for it.

PH wrote:

Carlton green wrote: I rather hope that we don’t go back to business as usual and instead start to look at our trading relationships with China and other countries. There is a good case for free trade but the consequences on manufacturing ability and diversity in the U.K. have been awful. We need to rethink a lot and simplistically we need to ban imports of goods which undermine our own actual and potential manufacturing capabilities. Certainly goods made in non ethical and polluting ways shouldn’t be for sale here.

It's a subject worthy of it's own thread. You can't look at the implications of imported goods without first looking at the costs. Our standard of living is built upon the exploitation of others. It is a hypocrisy, everyone wants a fairer World, not many want to pay for it.

And that sadly is the sum of it.
China and the far east have us exactly where they want us,we're reliant on them becuase we,and by we I mean the politicians and 'captains of industry' with our blessings and votes,generally dismantled our industries in favour of a 'service economy' because it's cheaper to import.

reohn2 wrote:

PH wrote:

Carlton green wrote: I rather hope that we don’t go back to business as usual and instead start to look at our trading relationships with China and other countries. There is a good case for free trade but the consequences on manufacturing ability and diversity in the U.K. have been awful. We need to rethink a lot and simplistically we need to ban imports of goods which undermine our own actual and potential manufacturing capabilities. Certainly goods made in non ethical and polluting ways shouldn’t be for sale here.

It's a subject worthy of it's own thread. You can't look at the implications of imported goods without first looking at the costs. Our standard of living is built upon the exploitation of others. It is a hypocrisy, everyone wants a fairer World, not many want to pay for it.

And that sadly is the sum of it.
China and the far east have us exactly where they want us,we're reliant on them becuase we,and by we I mean the politicians and 'captains of industry' with our blessings and votes,generally dismantled our industries in favour of a 'service economy' because it's cheaper to import.

I think that you are both correct and obviously I think I’m correct too. For say a couple of generations there has been a failure in this country to recognise the importance of being able to manufacture our needs for ourselves and there is a similar one about being able to feed ourselves too. We import cheap goods and think that that is OK for today and forget about coming years, such foolish short term thought. China has grown great on the back of such western stupidity and we have allowed them to dump their products here and to, one way or another, steal our intellectual property. It’s called free trade, the thing that allows that to happen, well that and being a nation of shopkeepers who make money not by honest labour but by buying low and selling high without adding any value in between.

The way forward is obscured and no politician left or right will follow it. But we do need to be making physical things again in this country, demanding that they are priced fairly (no taking profits whilst hiding behind tariffs) and placing tariffs on imported goods such that their sale price is fair relative to an efficiently made local product.

Such changes will result in lower standards of living? Well they might but with higher and more diverse employment in this country job and national economic security will increase. At the same time we should look at tax take and corporate evasion, another higher tax band should be introduced too such that those on over say £150 pay more back to the country that supports the means for them to earn such large amounts. Left leaning words? Well not really ‘cause I’m not a Labour voter, it’s just common sense learnt from having actually worked for a living, making stuff, as opposed to selling cheap stuff at inflated prices to make a quick buck today and sod tomorrow.

If anyone answered yes, then I assume they are okay with all the countries that got infected from their citizens' visits to, or people from, the UK, including when we were doing naff-all to stop it for weeks on end after it was identified here, and after that, including up to now, making a total horlicks of dealing with it. That could be quite an invoice, and there would be more invoices to follow.

[e.g., perhaps Ireland could bill us for all the infections and any deaths that resulted there from us recklessly holding Cheltenham.]

Carlton green wrote:I think that you are both correct and obviously I think I’m correct too.

Some interesting points, though I disagree with a large portion of it. I'm not going to reply further because I don't believe it has much to do with the question posed in this thread.

Flinders wrote:
[e.g., perhaps Ireland could bill us for all the infections and any deaths that resulted there from us recklessly holding Cheltenham.]

That’s another of those things that cuts both ways. The Irish were allowed to come by Eire and welcomed back, arguably Eire should have been more proactive in protecting their citizens. Alternatively the Irish were allowed to leave Eire and carry to the U.K. their virus. IMHO Cheltenham should never have gone ahead and likewise many others large gatherings.

Talking of large gatherings there are currently mass protests going on which will likely re-spread the virus. Whilst I’m sympathetic to the cause I’ve also suffered severe and prolonged loss of my freedoms to curtail spread of the virus only to have such efforts undermined by people who don’t consider my life chances and the lives of others who have or will die through the virus. It is right that some protest is made however this is not an appropriate time for mass protest and mass protest at this time will end up costing more black lives through Coronavirus infection.