Chain Choice for Rohloff & other questions

[sailorp]

Can anyone tell me what size chain I should run on our Rohloff-equipped tourers?
They have not had any parts changed, so it they are on the original chain and cogs.
I've measured the chain with a dial caliper gauge.
The side plates are 1mm thick. The pin is between 6.9 and 7.1mm long, thereabouts.
I've had a look at the KMC website and am bit confused by the choice.
Their chains appear to come in narrow (3/32") or wide (1/8"), pin sizes 7.3mm or 8.6mm.
So I presume mine will be the narrow type.
So KMC's correct chain would be either e1 EPT narrow or Z1eHX EPT narrow...I'll check the difference between those two models and decide later which to order.
But can someone confirm that the size I have chosen is right?

After reading the forum, I've realised that I've neglected chain maintenance a bit.
I just use a chain cleaning machine whenever I remember, and spray GT85 afterwards, which just doesn't cut it compared to what some folks recommend on the forum.
And I have never measured extension on these two bikes, as they have been quite lightly used.
But I thought I ought to get serious about it, now that we are out every day, (balmy weather and nothing else to do).
Rather than persist with the old chains, I'll just buy new, and start afresh.
Once one of you kind folks has told me the size, I'll be ordering four (two for my bike, two for hers) and will clean and alternate.
I'll also look at the gears, in case they have become hooked.

I'll need quick links of course, and some sort of hooky pliers thingy to make changing the links easier...any suggestions?

Also thinking of a buying chain measuring gauge, and keeping an eye on elongation.
Would any of you bother with the Park tool adjustable job CC-2, or just go for a plain metal tool like the Park tool CC-3.2?

I won't ask for suggestions on chain lub, as I know that will spark quite a debate.
We don't do wet miles hardly ever now, so dry lub will probably be better for us.

Thanks all

[sailorp]

Looks like I might have the above post wrong.
KMC sell a rear sprocket for Rohloff which is 1/8" (so the wide type chain)...now I am confused.
Could someone please advise what dimension and where that I need to measure to determine which chain I should buy?

[speedsixdave]

You can use either a 3/32" or 1/8" chain on most Rohloff setups - the standard sprockets are 3/32" and it would be a surprise if your chainrings were not 3/32 too. Sturmey-Archer and other hub gear sprockets were traditionally 1/8" and older chainrings for hub gear bikes might be 1/8" too. The same is true for track bikes.

There is one definite benefit and one definite drawback to using 1/8" chains rather than 3/32 on your Rohloff bikes. The advantage is that 1/8 chains should wear much more gradually, as they will spread the load across wider plates and rollers. The disadvantage is that a 1/8 chain is proportionally quite a bit heavier than a 3/32 chain, although in real terms the difference is only grams.

[Des49]

I have been very happy with the performance of the KMC X1 chain, expensive (about £30 if I remember), allegedly designed for the Rohloff, but so far seems to have lasted really well.

I run a 3/32nd chain, didn't know 1/8th sprockets were available. I run 1/8" transmission on my fixed gear bike and this benefits longetivity markedly.
But with the Rohloff reversible steel sprockets (great with the new splined mount) and also running a Surly stainless steel chainring things seem to last well. Would be interested to hear if anyone is using an 1/8" chain or sprocket/chainring with a Rohloff, though I do have to run a tensioner and not sure if the 1/8th will clear this.

I use a Park 3.2 chain wear gauge, I don't let my chains get beyond 0.5 wear. I may change chains a bit early, but better than too late.

[sailorp]

Thanks for that...
I see that Spa Cycles have a KMC Rohloff specific chain in stock...the KMC "X1", and it's 3/32".
Referring back to the KMC website, X1 is the old name of their "e1" available in gold or silver.
So I think I will be buying the X1 from Spa.

I'll do a bit more research on the other accessories , and pop in an order on Monday.

[PH]

I've found it more economical on a Rohloff to run cheap chains and rotate/change the sprocket at the same time as you replace a chain. Half a bite at the sprocket costs £7.50 and any cheap 3/32 chain, I'm currently using these and they were a bit cheaper when I bought them. I find the reversible chainring lasts 2-3 chains per side.
https://www.chickencyclekit.co.uk/rocke ... =0&p=12589

So, that's about £18.50 a go, the price of a new chain and sprocket and chainring costs. I won't discuss mileage as that has so many variables, but a top range chain has to last twice as long to make more sense and IME it doesn't happen. I've tried the expensive Rohloff specific chain. it's nice and shiny and it lasted a bit longer, but nothing like long enough to justify the expense. Discarding a chain at 5% wear to prolong £7.50 worth of sprocket doesn't add up either.
Neither do I bother with much chain cleaning, when it really needs it, it gets a wipe with a rag, oil added, left to soak in and the excess wiped off, that's with the no expense spent Wilco stuff.

EDIT - less confusing link

[speedsixdave]

I think we're running 1/8 on the tandem, but it's so long since I've changed it I can't remember. Which tells a tale in itself. It's definitely one of the things I really like about hub gears, you just bang a bit of lube on the chain every now and then and off you go. The chain is nice and far from the filth, too, unlike a derailleur, all of which helps.

I didn't know there were 1/8 Rohloff sprockets either, but I would by choice definitely go for one over a 3/32 assuming similar metallurgy. This is one area where a few grammes of extra steel can make a large difference in longevity.

There's an impressive range of single-speed chains on the KMC website. I quite like the anti-rust ones for my bikes that don't get a lot of maintenance. If you are a good person and do occasional chain maintenance and also do big miles, it might be worth paying the big bucks for the KMC e101 EPT, which seems to be nearly £50. They tell me that, because of the demands on narrow 11- and 12-speed chains, chain metallurgy has improved significantly in recent years. If one was to apply such metallurgy to a 1/8 chain, it should last a long time, KMC claim '10000km+' for the E101-EPT, which would probably be worth £48.50.

[Brucey]

The pin is between 6.9 and 7.1mm long, thereabouts...….
So I presume mine will be the narrow type.

yep.

However 1/8" chain runs OK on 3/32" sprockets/chainrings so unless there is something weird (a narrow tensioner?) then you could just buy a 1/8" chain.

FWIW GT85 is not an ideal chain lube. Freshly applied GT85 is worse yet, because (until it flashes off, which can take a long time in cold weather/from the insides of chain bushings) it is mostly solvent. If you are going to use GT85 (or pretty much anything with a solvent in it) then it is best to apply it the day before.

BTW most 1/8" chain is not made from the same super-hard materials that modern 3/32" (and 11/128") chains are made in. So getting a 1/8" chain that will (outside a chaincase) last appreciably longer than a good 3/32" chain is not that easy.

NB nominally 3/32" chainrings and sprockets have teeth that are normally ~2.0mm to 2.1mm thickness (whereas 3/32" = 2.38125mm) which means that nominally 11/128" chain ( all 9s, 10s, 11s chains etc) will normally run OK in an IGH or SS setup. However in a derailleur system (or a SS with a sprung tensioner) you need more clearance (for mud and for shifting) and 11/128" chain won't run (and shift well) on every chainring or sprocket setup.

cheers

[sailorp]

Thank you all for the helpful information.
I'll be putting in an order (@ Spa) tonight after I've digested the information.
I'll also measure the sprockets on the bikes to confirm that narrow chain is the right choice...I don't know if Chas Roberts built them up with 1/8th or 3/32nd. We didn't specify that level of detail when we ordered them with Rohloff gears, but left it to him to make the appropriate choices.

[Brucey]

I think that 1/8" sprockets for Rohloff have not always been available, so anything more than a few years old will use 3/32" sprockets.

BTW in comparatively recent times Rohloff have changed their sprocket system; in place of the threaded sprockets there is now a threaded carrier, which accepts splined sprockets. The original threaded sprockets are now NLA I believe. The carrier system works OK but IIRC it comes with a small chainline change; Rohloff sell shims so that the chainring can be spaced out slightly so it stays (if it ever was) 'perfect'.

cheers

[Tiberius]

[quote="Des49"
I do have to run a tensioner and not sure if the 1/8th will clear this.
[/quote]

A 1/8 chain would not run through my Rohloff chain tensioner, I had to use a 3/32 chain.

[geocycle]

I think that 1/8" sprockets for Rohloff have not always been available, so anything more than a few years old will use 3/32" sprockets.

BTW in comparatively recent times Rohloff have changed their sprocket system; in place of the threaded sprockets there is now a threaded carrier, which accepts splined sprockets. The original threaded sprockets are now NLA I believe. The carrier system works OK but IIRC it comes with a small chainline change; Rohloff sell shims so that the chainring can be spaced out slightly so it stays (if it ever was) 'perfect'.

cheers

Just to add there are two versions of the splined sprocket carrier to give two slightly different chain lines. I’ve ended up with the wider of the two as the narrow wasn’t available when i converted. It has been fine and I like the simplicity of flipping the sprocket.

[Des49]

[quote="Des49"
I do have to run a tensioner and not sure if the 1/8th will clear this.

A 1/8 chain would not run through my Rohloff chain tensioner, I had to use a 3/32 chain.[/quote]

Yes, just offered up an offcut of 1/8" chain to my tensioner, it doesn't fit.

[chocjohn9]

For my Rohloff, I do use my not so local bike shop, because they are specialists. About half the bikes they sell are Rohloff equiped. They recommend 8 speed KMC chains because they run a lot quieter. Im not sure if this is true because the bike has only ever had this

[Brucey]

FWIW it looks as if it ought not be difficult to convert the Rohloff tensioner to accept 1/8" chain.





Both pulleys can be spaced out with washers;

on the top pivot the spacer adjacent to the circlip would have to be changed for something thinner (a washer?). On the lower pulley there is a little extra length in the bolt; that and a slightly thinner (filed down?) and/or threadlocked nut on the backplate ought to do it.

BTW not all 1/8" chain is the same external width; some is narrow enough that it will (just) run on some 6s freewheels.

cheers