Cycling UK Forum

philvantwo wrote:Sounds like you didn't pay enough attention to the specification before you bought it. How much is just a frame anyway?

Read the spec on this.
It's the "successor" to the TSR30.
https://fudgescyclestore.com/product/moulton_tsr_22
http://www.moultonbicycles.co.uk/models/TSR.html

Would you buy one if you had the money?
What do you think of the spec?

With the TSR30, I was attracted to the triple. The "successor" is only a double ...... consequently, it's a non-starter for me.
It also has a stupid stupid stupid 10t small sprocket.
It's bad enough with an 11t wearing out quickly, but a 10t? Where are you going to buy a new one? You'll have to buy a whole new expensive cassette. All they need to have done was to fit a bigger chainset, and then they could have used a run-of-the-mill cassette.


BTW, the rolling diameter of that bike is 18.2" making the top gear only 96" ....... and not the 98" wot they say.
Pitiful top gear ............ even with the stupid 10t cog.

I understand why one might want a low gear under 20", but why do you want such high gears?
..
A railway modeller described his hobby: "maximum effort for minimum return"*
Might that apply here?

*at work it is the other way round

This is the nub of it.
Top gears need to be as high as you want them.
96" and I'd be spinning out on long gentle descents, let along going downwind on the flat.
We're not all twiddlers. I love a low cadence, not a high one.

If you live somewhere flat, have a single speed or a 3sp.

That's a lovely write Mick.
Clearly taken time, effort and money but the Moulton seems to be where you want it to be.

My first ride on a Moulton was in late 80s across the field at York rally and was the moment I know I would always want one.
I bought and rode a second hand F frame for a few years from late 90s until the main frame gave up at the rear pivot.

I replaced it with an APB dual drive 24.
18 years, 2 resprays, a replacement rear triangle later it's still my regular ride. Although the SRAM dd24 was replaced with a Shimano alfine 11 3 or 4 years ago.

About 5 years ago a TSR2 joined the stable (only model available on C2W scheme).
The tsr was quickly converted to a 5 speed, and has just changed again with a nexus 3 speed as the 5 so and the wheel it was in had some issues.

If I get the opportunity I'd love an sst or even a Bradford built AM.

I like Moultons. I've had a few. The F Frames are bomb proof. The modern ones are apparently not so well engineered. A good friend of mine who is a high mileage Audaxer bought one recently and loved it. However he has had lots of problems with wheel bearings and tyres. I managed to get him a batch of decent 17" Bridgestone tyres from my contact in Japan (where these bikes are worshipped by some), but he has cancelled the upgraded model that he had ordered. They are a bit of an anachronism in the modern world, as they are based on the concept (that I know Mick still subscribes to), that rock hard narrow tyres are the most efficient and you need suspension to get adequate comfort. This has been proven to be wrong by research and in practice. Light, flexible wider tyres are in fact more efficient and more comfortable, so why don't Moulton get with the programme and fit fatter tyres and ditch the suspension, which shouldn't be needed on the road.

To this end, I am trying out this little beauty


It has 20" BMX wheels and I am using 50mm tyres. It only weighs 11Kg with mudguards. It is comfy at 30psi and rolls well on the road and on gravel trails. I haven't done enough miles yet to give a detailed appraisal, but initial reactions are that it rides well enough up hills, but for long rides I would always choose my full sized Polyvalent with 650B 42mm tyres, but that may be just because I love that bike!

Please, what make of machine is that, where may I get one?

Hi Cyril,
It's a Velo Orange Neutrino. I work with Velo Duo Cycles, who distribute Velo Orange in UK and Europe, which is how I came by it.
Cheers
Mike

Interesting read Mick, I've been off the forum and away from cycling for quite a few years so interesting to see you on a Moulton and to read about it.

I think I've only ridden with someone who had one just the once and he was going plenty well enough for both of us! Which wouldn't be hard these days as I've no cycling fitness and starting from scratch which is a bit depressing but hey ho.

Trigger wrote:Interesting read Mick, I've been off the forum and away from cycling for quite a few years so interesting to see you on a Moulton and to read about it.

Welcome back Trig!

There's FAR more to the story and the heartache and brainache to do with the story, but it'd be rather longwinded and boring to read.
I sort of condensed it down into information nuggets.

MikewsMITH2 wrote:I like Moultons. ….. They are a bit of an anachronism in the modern world, as they are based on the concept (that I know Mick still subscribes to), that rock hard narrow tyres are the most efficient and you need suspension to get adequate comfort. This has been proven to be wrong by research and in practice. Light, flexible wider tyres are in fact more efficient and more comfortable, so why don't Moulton get with the programme and fit fatter tyres and ditch the suspension, which shouldn't be needed on the road.....

Uh, expecting a successful suspension designer to design a bike without suspension. when that is the defining feature of the brand? No, that ain't gonna happen anytime soon. In the grand scheme of things that should be categorised under 'highly unrealistic expectations'; Sir Alex would be twirling rapidly in his grave at the mere thought.

FWIW you can get adequately low Crr and good comfort if you use light flexible tyres. But such tyres are not always durable on urban and extra-urban moonscapes-masquerading-as-roads and they are never puncture proof. BITD when Moulton designed his bike standard tyres were indeed slow when they were inflated to pressures that afforded comfort (without suspension). Today the same may be true, if you take the view that 'standard tyres' are ones with really good puncture resistance.

So I think that one niche where Moultons work well is when tyres with good puncture resistance are mandatory, yet good comfort and low rolling resistance are also required.

FWIW I have ridden a Moulton with modern (allegedly) low Crr fat tyres and suspension and the result was very comfy but regardless to tyre pressure used, the bike was really slow and I didn't enjoy riding it much at all. With narrower tyres fitted the bike was subjectively much nicer to ride.

IMHO where the Moulton concept (indeed the suspension on bikes concept overall) falls down is in the fact that the suspension (whether it is springs or fat tyres) always affects the power output of the rider, and (whisper it in some circles) the Moulton rear suspension designs have never been very good in this respect.

cheers

As always, a bit late in the day but here goes. I always hankered after a spaceframe Moulton so a few years ago bought a TSR 30 TE DBS off the for sale section here. It was fitted with the Stronglight chain set and Campagnolo levers and mechs. It is my second most used bike, after my Brompton which is for commuting and short day rides when away.
The only difference from the Evans listing is the chain set and a proper stem....not the daft adjustable thing, the seller had changed it but included it, plus front and rear racks, day bag, spare heavier duty wheels and tyres, decent rear light and cycle computer.All for a good price.
Agreed, it’s a bit under geared at the top but low enough for the hills around and about Halifax.
No problems encountered so far, I just make sure the tyres are pumped hard and the suspension bearing is well greased.
We also have a TSR 27 with an ARCC retrofit e bike conversion which works rather well. Again bought on here, ostensibly for my partner, but I give it the occasional spin! This would have been expensive to do but the seller asked a very fair price and threw in the original wheel, a bag and a few bits and bobs plus an extra battery. This uses a variant on Mick’s set up. A 3 speed rear hub with a 9 speed cassette but only a single chain ring. I’ve been waiting for the hub (SRAM) to cause problems so have bought a few spares.....so far haven’t needed them!
So, they are quirky but comfortable and always attract a second look. Just wish they were a bit lighter but then again, I wish I was!!
https://www.evanscycles.com/pashley-tsr ... e-EV177170

That Evans bike is better than the one I bought.
The handlebars are better, the Ergos are better than the silly STIs, and the saddle is better.

I would have still have got rid of the carbon seatpost and fitted a fixed stem ............. plus added another set of stays to the front mudguard BEFORE it broke.

It doesn't tell you what cassette it had. Campag I would expect. If so, I'd buy a Miche rear hub Shimano specific so a better range of cassette could be fitted. I'd worry about the Campag/Shimano issue later as there's many ways of sorting it. This is the way forward for my Campag Mercian in the future.

Still the issue of gear range would be there, but at least some of the bike was right to start with!

I thought the spec was good when I weighed up whether to buy it. I’m a fan of Brooks saddles and the titanium Swift is lovely. The cassette is Campagnolo, as expected, the set up works well even though the chainset is not part of a group set. The carbon seatpost has been fine. I’ve had to slacken it from time to time to make it easier to fit the bike into the back of a car. No slippage once retightened. I weigh in at 12.5 stone so it’s been tested. Interestingly, the TSR 27 has an aluminium post as standard. I’m more used to Shimano shifters but I get on with the Ergos just fine. As you say, the gear range isn’t perfect but I don’t often find it undergeared. A very few times on the flat but mainly on a downhill stretch but I tend to freewheel at that point....built for comfort, not for speed. The calipers work well enough but do require regular adjustment to instil confidence. Another plus is the paint finish which is very durable, mine in dark blue and the other in orange. I think it’s powder coat but it always looks smart and doesn’t chip. I have enjoyed your detailed improvement plan by the way.

fivebikes wrote: ........... I have enjoyed your detailed improvement plan by the way.

Thanks!

The paint finish isn't great. It's faded and gone a bit matt since I bought it, and looking at early photos of the bike, it's sad that it's faded and "matted" off in only four years.

My whole history and feeling about the bike must seem complaining and disappointing, but my complaints are aimed at the specifications and not the bike as an item.

The bike was marketed and sold as a triple with a wide range of gearing, a tourer and a "go anywhere" sort of bike.

TSR 30 which has been a popular fxture on the Touring/Distance cycling scene for several years.

Apart from the typo in "fixture" ....... it's a load of marketing hype and a load of tosh.

Sadly disappointed with the bike as off the shelf, but after heartache and brainache and loadsa modifications to the gearing, I love it to bits!

I found the same regarding paint finish.
the paint on my TSR (almost 5 now) is terrible and has been flaking off around dropouts, and kingpin in particular,
This is slightly galling as the bike was seriously delayed when ordered, and when I complained to Pashley the explanation was that it was in a batch that needed repainting.
It's at the point that it will be off for powder coating later this year when we have started to ease off lockdown and businesses reopen.

As for tyres, they are a bit of an achilles heel. I found that Durano handled a little twitchy and felt very narrow. They also wore like soap as did Kojaks which handled better. I'm running M+1.35" at the minute which are only slightly heavier than the regular Marathon (which is only avalable in 1.5")
The TSR came with Continental Sport II which rode great but but which punctured like no other tyre I've ridden in 30+ years. I am thinking of trying Marathon racers, mainly to lose a little more rotating weight

One other tip I heard years ago for Moultons was to have saddle as far forward as possible, which gives a slight increase in speed. It worked for me.