Escooter trial to start

[Stevek76]

and seems to totally gloss over where it's estimate of distance travelled comes from.

Not sure if you were just helpfully including parts of the summary for the benefits of others there? (Full report was actually linked in the road.cc article in a rather unusual turn of events for news outlets)

I couldn't see anywhere in the report a source for any estimate of total distance travelled in order to obtain casualty rates. Couldn't even see an estimate of that distance, they just jump straight from casualties to rates.

Unless they've snuck some out recently I've not seen any from the DfT either. We might get some in the provisional 2021 road safety release which tends to turn up in June (ish) but possibly not until the full release in September.

[PH]

I'm still waiting to see some data on what E-scooters are replacing, my guess is that they're replacing as many pedestrian journeys as car journeys. No doubt they'll also be creating their own share of new demand, too.

Here's some from other countries:
https://www.itf-oecd.org/sites/default/ ... lity_1.pdf
It's referenced in Cycling UK's submission to the Transport Committee:
https://committees.parliament.uk/writte ... /8182/pdf/

I've been arguing for a network of low/no traffic zones for years, but cyclists just keep right on campaigning for more cycle paths.

Cyclists? I think a large part of the problem is in thinking this is some sort of homogenous group who'll all want the same thing, moving away from that would benefit all.

[thirdcrank]

There seems to be a huge amount of data in the PACTS report but IMO it goes into that detail while totally failing to see the wider view of the wood. I don't claim to have read it closely but while the extent of the data gathered seems impressive - especially bearing in mind how few seem to have been gathered directly in connection with these escooter experiments - the conclusions might as well be by somebody WFH on the dark side of the moon.

[PH]

But the "dead feeble moped" still exists in its legal form.
I ride an electric licenced e-moped with insurance, numberplate etc.
They are available from a number of (Chinese) makers - mine is NIU.
The reason they are not used, as opposed to e-Scooters is the regulatory regime.

I think the reason they're not popular is that within the UK's regulations they fall into a gap that doesn't IMO have much advantage over the options either side , in much the same way as the petrol equivalent which have largely disappeared in the UK. Interested to know why you chose it? On the whole, I think the UK regulations have it about right, there has to be some cut off point between Bike>Motorbike and 25kph/250w feels about right, I don't ride much faster, it's just a lot easier.
I considered a moped when looking for a Deliveroo vehicle, I quickly dismissed it as I couldn't see any benefit over the choice of 125cc equivalent electric motorbikes/scooters (For those old enough and holding the appropriate license) The choice became one of those or a standard E-bike and considering most of the use is urban and the area is reasonable well served by cycle facilities I went with the later.

[Nearholmer]

I've been arguing for a network of low/no traffic zones for years, but cyclists just keep right on campaigning for more cycle paths.

If the basic want of all people who ride bikes is not to be killed or injured while doing so, I imagine that an intelligently designed combo of shared-use paths, deeply-calmed roads, pure cycleways etc would be the overall solution.

I do sometimes perceive in some places that there are conflicting, or at least divergent, wants as between high-speed, point-to-point bike riders, typically suburban-to-urban commuters, and others such as people lugging their shopping, or taking their children to/from school, for whom the trip is much less like a race.

Personally, I’ll settle for safety first, and take any possibility of cracking along at a fair pace as a bonus.

PS: just to get it off my chest, in case any cycle route design professionals are reading, please, please no routes through busy car parking areas. They look calm and benign, because cars are moving slowly, but are an absolutely minefield of vehicles backing out with poor visibility, children darting out between vehicles, people accessing hatch-backs and not looking out for cyclists etc.

[hemo]

We will see soon what the law will be regarding scooters as they will soon be made legal, one expects the current 350w limit will be applied and a 12.5 mph max speed. Road only use and likely a compulsory helmet will be my guess, whether third party type of insurance will be required we will have to wait and see.
With so many be used and flouting current laws there is no way they can't stay unregulated or illegal, for sure the country doesn't have proper community policing to enforce there use and is only done so on a token gesture.

[thirdcrank]

Apart from really serious crashes and blatant things like somebody falling off drunk, AIUI, current escooter enforcement is restricted to the simple rule-of-thumb: scheme scooters are legal, others are illegal and this is largely enforced by an occasional crackdown with confiscations. There is nobody with eg the training to enforce nuances of rules so it's either naïve or dishonest to suggest otherwise.

[reohn2]

Laws will be abided by when people fear being caught and it costing them proportionately
Paths will be built and maintained and only after potholes are repaired in roads.

Chances?
Not likely

[simonineaston]

We can discuss it and even think of solutions to perceived issues, but at the end of the day, nothing will be done, because the country's infrastructure is crumbling, and we can no longer afford to avoid the drift down to the bottom of the ocean. We are like a dead whale, destined to feed the sharks and those tiny tiny little prawn like thingies that wait 'till the body slowly disintegrates.

[millimole]

But the "dead feeble moped" still exists in its legal form.
I ride an electric licenced e-moped with insurance, numberplate etc.
They are available from a number of (Chinese) makers - mine is NIU.
The reason they are not used, as opposed to e-Scooters is the regulatory regime.

Interested to know why you chose it?

See my blog post entry at the point of the decision https://gaylers.me/wp/2022/02/19/on-getting-my-niu/
Knowing what I know now, it's not a decision I'd repeat - I'd get a 125 equivalent.

[Bmblbzzz]

Good point. No human assistance on a scooter.

My point about people subsisting on poor wages wasn’t really about deliveroo riders, it was more about people who travel to and from work on e-bikes because that is the only transport they can afford (which excludes those who choose e-bikes for other reasons). They are doing exactly what people did in the 1950s and 60s on dead-feeble mopeds, which largely died-out as people became able to afford more capable personal transport.

But the "dead feeble moped" still exists in its legal form.
I ride an electric licenced e-moped with insurance, numberplate etc.
They are available from a number of (Chinese) makers - mine is NIU.
The reason they are not used, as opposed to e-Scooters is the regulatory regime.

The" dead feeble moped" is treated like a motorbike, the e-Scooter is treated like a toy.

My NIU Uqi has an indicated top speed of 29mph (probably nearer 27), modest acceleration, requires insurance (surprisingly expensive), a driving licence, zero tax, and will need an mot if it lasts that long - why bother with all this if you can buy an e-Scooter and 'just ride it'?
(I have a full motorcycle licence)

Should the regulations for e-Scooters rise up to the level of mopeds, or are e-mopeds over-regulated?

In theory, the moped has a top speed twice that of the e-scooter, being 30mph compared to 15mph. The 15mph cut off is the same as for the e-assistance of an EAPC, but unlike an e-bike, the e-scooter rider has no option of adding pedal power to get beyond that. In practice, the numerous hired e-scooters here are easily overtaken by a not very fast cyclist (me) on the flat (but not uphill).

The speed problem, in so far as it exists (it does exist, but much less than the speed problem of cars), is caused by privately owned e-scooters which are either modified to reach higher speeds or reach higher speeds without modification. And we won't get those homologated to the applicable standard while they continue to be outright illegal.

[hemo]

A women was recently received an 18month driving ban after being caught at over twice the alcohol limit whilst riding a scooter, plod saw her weaving in and out of traffic and eventually stopped her to have a word. It was then noticed she was intoxicated and failed a roadside breath test.

[PH]

Interested to know why you chose it?

See my blog post entry at the point of the decision https://gaylers.me/wp/2022/02/19/on-getting-my-niu/
Knowing what I know now, it's not a decision I'd repeat - I'd get a 125 equivalent.

Thanks for the link and the honest conclusion.
While looking for a delivery vehicle I tried a few, the 10kw Nuuk Tracker was possibly the most fun motorbike I've ever ridden. For various reasons it didn't make commercial sense to get one, but it took some resisting.

[reohn2]

Interested to know why you chose it?

See my blog post entry at the point of the decision https://gaylers.me/wp/2022/02/19/on-getting-my-niu/
Knowing what I know now, it's not a decision I'd repeat - I'd get a 125 equivalent.

Thanks for the link and the honest conclusion.
While looking for a delivery vehicle I tried a few, the 10kw Nuuk Tracker was possibly the most fun motorbike I've ever ridden. For various reasons it didn't make commercial sense to get one, but it took some resisting.

My bold

I've just watched a review of it here:- https://youtu.be/Dv7wQGQzUbQ
I can fully understand why you would say that,it looks like the ideal workhorse commuter,quick enough and with enough rage to make perfect sense for the job in hand.

[Dingdong]

Most ebikes now are looking more and more like a motorbike. What's the point!