Escooter trial to start

[simonhill]

I've no idea what's happening in any wider sense.

One of my big points would be that that the government needs to decide what they want to happen in this connection. ie Do they want to ban them? If so get on with it before it's too late - if it's not already too late. OR Define the regime under which they will be allowed.

Snipped

Classic Sir Humphrey (Yes Minister, etc). When uncertain, start a trial which keeps getting extended. Also known as kicking it into the long grass.

[Jdsk]

"Parisians to vote on banning e-scooters":`
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... e-scooters

Jonathan

[simonhill]

"Parisians to vote on banning e-scooters":`
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... e-scooters

Jonathan

But only hire scooters. The Mayor said privately owned scooters are OK.

[Bmblbzzz]

Not even all hire scooters. Docked ones would still be allowed.

[thirdcrank]

This fatality doesn't seem to have been mentioned before

Mum of Wolverhampton e-scooter victim waiting for law change

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-b ... m-64452242

As far as I can see the deceased was breaking the law in that he shouldn't have been on the escooter in public at all

[Jdsk]

"Parisians to vote on banning e-scooters":`
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... e-scooters

But only hire scooters. The Mayor said privately owned scooters are OK.

Not even all hire scooters. Docked ones would still be allowed.

"City Hall said just over 103,000 people voted, with 89% rejecting e-scooters and just 11% supporting them. Turnout was very low. The vote had been open to all of Paris’ 1.38 million registered voters.
"Hidalgo hailed the consultative referendum as a success and said its outcome was "very clear." "There will no longer be any self-service scooters in Paris from September 1," she said."
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/transport/art ... 3_216.html

Jonathan

[Nearholmer]

Sensible outcome. It’s the “dumped anywhere at the end of a hire” ones that are a PITA round here, rather than the riding of them.

[Bmblbzzz]

I largely agree.

[mjr]

A very low turnout and I suspect many if not most of the actual users of the escooters were visitors who could not vote.

Careful what you wish for. A similar vote could easily see the end of public hire bicycles too, or possibly all scooters and all bicycles, if legally possible. There is no sign of the public (or most politicians) wishing to have an adult conversation about why micromobility is useful to avoid gridlock and pollution deaths.

[simonineaston]

An update to this topic is my perception that the usage of Voi scooters here in Bristol looks like it's changing. No data here but my sense was that the folks using Voi scooters used to look like the folks I think were expected to use them, ie teenagers over 18, students, the young people who might have bought a car but thought they'd try a Voi instead.
For some months, I've seen a different group starting to use them, that looks like it's made up of kids that are way younger than late teens. More users seem to be ignoring the rules too, with many more scooters running on pavements, ridden two - sometimes three! up. Helmets are rarely seen and Vois are very popular with folks going home after the pub... wobble wobble!
Over in Birmingham we learnt to day that a youngster had got round the age limit of 18 by a relatively simple procedure, carried out by his friend. Sadly the poor kid suffered a fatal accident, which in fairness may have little to do with his age directly. However, judging by the number of youngsters I see on Vois in my home town, the same hack or ones like it appear readily done. The younger the pilot, the less likely they are to have the necessary experience or judgement to travel safely. Or indeed, incentive to stick to the guidelines, via their licence details, they being too young to have one.

[Grandad]

Kent Police Commissioner has the right idea
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/england/kent

[Bmblbzzz]

An update to this topic is my perception that the usage of Voi scooters here in Bristol looks like it's changing. No data here but my sense was that the folks using Voi scooters used to look like the folks I think were expected to use them, ie teenagers over 18, students, the young people who might have bought a car but thought they'd try a Voi instead.
For some months, I've seen a different group starting to use them, that looks like it's made up of kids that are way younger than late teens. More users seem to be ignoring the rules too, with many more scooters running on pavements, ridden two - sometimes three! up. Helmets are rarely seen and Vois are very popular with folks going home after the pub... wobble wobble!
Over in Birmingham we learnt to day that a youngster had got round the age limit of 18 by a relatively simple procedure, carried out by his friend. Sadly the poor kid suffered a fatal accident, which in fairness may have little to do with his age directly. However, judging by the number of youngsters I see on Vois in my home town, the same hack or ones like it appear readily done. The younger the pilot, the less likely they are to have the necessary experience or judgement to travel safely. Or indeed, incentive to stick to the guidelines, via their licence details, they being too young to have one.

]My perception is also that there's been a change – but the opposite way! Instead of young people, I'm seeing more middle-aged people using them, some clearly commuting and others looking like they're going shopping or other social trips.

[backnotes]

My perception is also that there's been a change – but the opposite way! Instead of young people, I'm seeing more middle-aged people using them, some clearly commuting and others looking like they're going shopping or other social trips.

One of the reasons you may be seeing more middle aged / older riders is the discount Voi offers for "disadvantaged users" (i.e. being 65+ my case). I was surprised to find that I can get 50% off the cost of a £40 monthly pass, and if I lived in the right place, it looks as if it could cost me as little as £7 a month for a monthly pass.

Voi 4 All
Supporting disadvantaged users, including those from low-income groups, refugees & asylum seekers, disabled people and older people 65+, with a 50% discount on a day or month pass in your town or city (82.5% discount in Bristol, Bath and South Gloucestershire).
(from https://www.voi.com/voi-4-discounts/)

[simonhill]

Kent Police Commissioner has the right idea
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/england/kent

That website is currently showing person jailed for nearly 6 years after killing a motorcyclist. No licence (provisional but banned), no insurance, etc. Suspected on mobile phone. Ludicrous sentence, but murder by car is not considered a heinous act.

I presume you meant an earlier story that the Kent PCC said he wanted all illegal scooters confiscated and crushed.

The article I read in a Kent (web) newspaper (ex Telegraph, I think) added how antisocial scooters were. It also said 12 people killed in UK this year. Of course no mention of how anti social cars can be and the 2,000 odd people killed by them each year.

[Grandad]

I presume you meant an earlier story that the Kent PCC said he wanted all illegal scooters confiscated and crushed.

Yes. The link will soon disappear so here is the full article

"E-scooters used on public roads should be seized and crushed, a county's police and crime commissioner has said
Matthew Scott said the vehicles were "not road safe" or "road legal" and should not be on Kent's roads.
He said now a trial in Canterbury had come to an end, he did not want the "perception to rise that they have been effectively decriminalised".
E-scooters are illegal to use on public land unless in a town or city covered by a government trial.Mr Scott was sharing his thoughts about e-scooters at a meeting of the Kent and Medway Police and Crime Panel on Tuesday.'Educate first'
"The panel knows my view on e-scooters," he said.
"Seize them and crush them because they are not legal on any public land in Kent now that we don't have the trial down at Canterbury.
"I don't want the perception to rise that they have been effectively decriminalised, when in fact they are not road safe, not road legal and should not be on our roads."

Labour county councillor Shane Mochrie-Cox told the meeting the vehicles were "perceived to have been decriminalised" and that enforcement was a "postcode lottery".

Kent Police's head of prevention, Supt Pete Steenhuis, said if an officer came across "an e-scooter being used incorrectly", they would "first seek to educate the rider and encourage them to adhere to the legislation".

"If riders refuse to follow advice, or if they are seen using an e-scooter in a dangerous or anti-social manner, we will use our powers to seize the vehicle and take further enforcement action," he added.

In July 2022, 80-year-old Sarah Carter broke her wrist and fractured her jaw when she was knocked over by am e-scooter as she walked along a pavement.

Five months later, Kent County Council refused an offer from the Department for Transport to continue the pilot scheme in Canterbury until May 2024.