Do you ever consider the worse that can happen?

[Icsunonove]

You cannot see a dark moving object ( either car or cyclist) that is going through dappled shade whether you are approaching it from behind or if it coming towards you.

But you might be able to see the same object when it's illuminated by a street light or a car's headlamps.

Could it be the case that when an object travels through dappled shade, i.e. light and dark patches, it makes little difference whether the object itself is light or dark? I'd have thought the problem here is the human eyes inability to cope with extreme high contrast. How many of us have it a pothole in such conditions? Was it in a light patch or a dark patch? Equally difficult to spot IMO. If it was marked with white paint would it help? I think not.

I would contest that when approaching such conditions the only sure fire way of reducing risk is to slow down, hence maximising the opportunity of spotting an obstacle and avoiding it, also reducing stopping distance.

Front and rear lights and luminous clothing should be a legal requirement.

Liz

In the daytime? Up until a few years ago this would have been seen as absolute lunacy. (I'm sure I can hear my father spinning in his grave). Everyone was just expected to drive to the conditions. I can't help feeling the desire not to slow down whatever the conditions feeds the expectation others should make themselves more visible. Will we end up safer?

[reohn2]

I am a keen road cyclist and I am writing this as an exasperated cyclist who sees so many others wearing black with no lights and nothing luminous.

So... you see them then?!
I never get this argument ......

Problem is that there are so many drivers not paying enough attention to their driving,so wearing something that makes you stand out like a sore thumb at least gives you a better chance of being seen by the inattentive driver.

Liz_W sees the Ninjas because she is attentive others might not,because they're not.

I know cyclists should be able to wear whatever they like or go completely naked if they so wish without fear of being hit by a driver but IMO it's not that simple.
Driver's attention isn't always the best it should be due to distractions of one form or another as a result a dark object against a dark background can be missed by the inattentive.
It's 100% the driver's fault should they not see a cyclist but it's no consulation if you're injured or worse ,the only defence against the situation is to wear something that can be seen againstmany/most backgrounds and or have lights on.

[tatanab]

the only defence against the situation is to wear something that can be seen againstmany/most backgrounds

It is raining. I am wearing my great big, bright yellow, decades old cape. Who should pull out in front of me but a police driver!

[peetee]

Problem is that there are so many drivers not paying enough attention to their driving,so wearing something that makes you stand out like a sore thumb at least gives you a better chance of being seen by the inattentive driver.

As a result of last weeks incident outlined above, in future I will be riding with a flashing front light in daylight too. Bright colours are helpful but still of limited value when drivers are in bright sunlight and riders are in the shade. The driver in my incident had questionable competency but I can’t help but think a good front light might have made all the difference.

[Pendodave]

I often find myself pondering the visibility (and behaviour) of cyclists when I'm driving. Not in a pejorative sense, but to better inform my own cycling. Sighting seems worst of all when driving into a low sun, particularly if it comes and goes due to vegetation or clouds. Aside from this, I notice that cyclists wearing bright colours are visible from further away than those wearing dull colours. Consequently, I am extra vigilant when cycling into the sun, and i choose to wear a brightly coloured top and white mitts (so signals can be seen more clearly).

Roads are busy, there's lots going on. I like to help others to help me. I dont think of this as victim blaming, but sensible mutual assistance.

[reohn2]

......Roads are busy, there's lots going on. I like to help others to help me. I dont think of this as victim blaming, but sensible mutual assistance.

Summed up in one sentence!

[Cugel]

Problem is that there are so many drivers not paying enough attention to their driving,so wearing something that makes you stand out like a sore thumb at least gives you a better chance of being seen by the inattentive driver.

(snip)

A very bright flashing light, fore & aft, can make one visible to drivers sooner than if one rides without, in some circumstances. It has to be bright and flashing, though. I've come across many cyclists that I see as such well before I notice their weak glimmer of a light.

Moreover, truly inattentive drivers still won't see you, because they're not looking. They're phoning, screen-gawping or staring deeply into the eyes of their passenger as they hold an intense conversation about last night's soap opera doings.

And, whilst it hasn't yet happened to me out here in civilised West Wales, I can recall cases in NW Ingurland where a motorised loon gave me a punishment pass, largely because I had a bright red flashing light in the rear that he took agin'. How do I know this? A couple of the degenerates slowed down 6 inches from my handlebars to tell me they objected to me "trying to be special".

***********
Your general point that making oneself more visible won't hurt is a fair one, though. Some people will appreciate being able to see you sooner, especially the ones so decrepit, unskilled, badly sighted, plain stupid or otherwise unfit to drive that they need 5X the warning before being able to steer, brake or otherwise take actions to avoid running you over.

Why aren't these inept drivers weeded out by the testing, the observations of the rozzers or other processes seeking to avoid RME (Road Mayhem Events)? My own belief is that there's a loose conspiracy of those in legal circles, from law makers to rozzers to beaks, who have decided to give motorists special rights to maim and kill. Yes, seriously. One may read their PR in the newspaps, especially those newspaps many of us feel are guilty of other crimes agin' society.

Cugel, in a paranoid mood (but it ain't paranoia if its true).

[reohn2]

.........Why aren't these inept drivers weeded out by the testing, the observations of the rozzers or other processes seeking to avoid RME (Road Mayhem Events)? My own belief is that there's a loose conspiracy of those in legal circles, from law makers to rozzers to beaks, who have decided to give motorists special rights to maim and kill. Yes, seriously. One may read their PR in the newspaps, especially those newspaps many of us feel are guilty of other crimes agin' society.

Cugel, in a paranoid mood (but it ain't paranoia if its true).

Yer not wrong,too many unfit drivers on our roads,and nowhere near enough police!

[rareposter]

It's 100% the driver's fault should they not see a cyclist but it's no consulation if you're injured or worse ,the only defence against the situation is to wear something that can be seen against many/most backgrounds and or have lights on.

Having called out the "I see people in all black..." comment earlier, I'll admit to always using lights - my Exposure lights have a "Daybright" setting which will cut through pretty much anything and the rear has a brake light function too. Hit the brakes and a little accelerometer chip in the light changes it from flashing to a bright solid red. It works without drivers even being aware that "OMG, that cyclist has a brake light!". It's a hardwired thing in (most) drivers minds - see brake lights ahead, hit the brakes.

The "wear hi-vis" thing I'm less convinced about. I've seen bright yellow fade into almost nothing in bright dappled sunlight, especially against a green "countryside" background and there are certain situations where something like pink or bright blue is actually a better colour. As a general rule, I'll rely on the lights and wear whatever clothing suits the conditions no matter what colour that might be.

Regarding the original question: Do you ever consider the worse that can happen?
Yes - I carry a laminated bit of paper in the wallet that holds my phone and cards/cash and that has emergency contact details, blood group, the unlock code for my phone and a couple of other details on it. It's always in that wallet so in the event I'm found dead/seriously injured at the side of the road for whatever reason, at least it's an easy ID for the poor police/ambulance folk.

What prompted this was a situation many years ago when I was due to meet a club-mate in Richmond Park. I was riding round one way, I knew he'd be riding the other way. No sign of him, I did a couple of laps and there was an incident at one side of the road, air ambulance and police in attendance. Eventually, I stopped - asked what had happened. Cyclist had crashed. OK... Any idea of his name...? The police woman said the guy was absolutely out of it but had given his first name. Sure enough, it was my clubmate. So I was let through to talk to him and we tried to get some info out of him mostly "what the hell is the PIN code for your phone?" (it was turned off). He was too far gone to answer coherently and him being a new-ish member of the club I didn't know his next of kin or address or anything. He was flown off to hospital and his poor wife at home was going absolutely mental when he hadn't returned. She'd phoned his mobile (which was off and we didn't know the PIN to turn it on). He survived and was fine but his poor family went through absolute hell. It took the police HOURS to trace who he was (he had no ID on him), where he was from and to then send a car round to his wife. He'd promised to be back at 4pm; it was 2am when the police turned up at her door. She was absolutely frantic with worry.

If I can save that from happening then that's about the best I can hope for.

[peetee]

Yer not wrong,too many unfit drivers on our roads,and nowhere near enough police!

I was initially very pleased to see the police turn up for our incident but later, on reflection, less than impressed.
They spent plenty of time at the scene interviewing the injured cyclist and offending motorist but never took a statement from me or assessed the location of the incident for the accuracy of the statements they had. I alone was the only other witness to the collision and I alone was the only person not, visibly, in distress as a result.

[Jdsk]

Regarding the original question: Do you ever consider the worse that can happen?
Yes - I carry a laminated bit of paper in the wallet that holds my phone and cards/cash and that has emergency contact details, blood group, the unlock code for my phone and a couple of other details on it. It's always in that wallet so in the event I'm found dead/seriously injured at the side of the road for whatever reason, at least it's an easy ID for the poor police/ambulance folk.

I'd encourage everyone to check what information they're carrying and what they're not. I'd include any relevant medical details in that list.

And modern 'phones have emergency settings that don't rely on codes or fingerprints or face identification. Here's how these work on iPhones:

"Set up your Medical ID in the Health app on your iPhone":
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT207021

"Use Emergency SOS on your iPhone":
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208076

Jonathan

[reohn2]

Yer not wrong,too many unfit drivers on our roads,and nowhere near enough police!

I was initially very pleased to see the police turn up for our incident but later, on reflection, less than impressed.
They spent plenty of time at the scene interviewing the injured cyclist and offending motorist but never took a statement from me or assessed the location of the incident for the accuracy of the statements they had. I alone was the only other witness to the collision and I alone was the only person not, visibly, in distress as a result.

Sorry,should have read "not enough traffic police" specialised traffic police would've done as you say and looked deep into the causesI would've thought.
Also the problem is I believe that the police are so thin on the ground they just can't give individual cases the time they'd like.

[awavey]

By the way: I’m the cyclist in Hampshire with 2 front and two rear lights and dressed like a giant lemon.

and I take it youve taken into consideration that at night 2 front lights/rear lights if placed vertically can be mistaken for a car thats further away than you are on your bike, which is why motorbikes with dual headlights only one is lit on dipped beam, because they were finding motorcyclists kept being hit by cars, because the drivers had thought it was a car further away and safe to overtake whatever obstacle they had.

plus you ride with the sun rising/setting infront of you, you can be wearing any colour you like, the drivers behind you will only see a silhouette of you, which is black.

[Bsteel]

I'd encourage everyone to check what information they're carrying and what they're not. I'd include any relevant medical details in that list.

Thinking about this I was looking at solutions not reliant on cards or phones such as a QR code on a dog tag or bracelet. The idea appeals as like the phone you can keep the on-line information up to date. However, I'm not sure I'd want to trust personal information to a random start-up company with a sticker printer and a website. Has anyone any experience of these products or companies ?

The other option I've seen suggested, maybe a little tongue in cheek, was to tattoo your NHS number on your wrist. If nothing else it helps identify the corpse. The question with that is, should it be considered as secure personal information in the same way as a National Insurance number and if not would it be recognised by an emergency crew ?

[Cugel]

I'd encourage everyone to check what information they're carrying and what they're not. I'd include any relevant medical details in that list.

Thinking about this I was looking at solutions not reliant on cards or phones such as a QR code on a dog tag or bracelet. The idea appeals as like the phone you can keep the on-line information up to date. However, I'm not sure I'd want to trust personal information to a random start-up company with a sticker printer and a website. Has anyone any experience of these products or companies ?

The other option I've seen suggested, maybe a little tongue in cheek, was to tattoo your NHS number on your wrist. If nothing else it helps identify the corpse. The question with that is, should it be considered as secure personal information in the same way as a National Insurance number and if not would it be recognised by an emergency crew ?

Your National Insurance Number is not any kind of secret and serves as an identifier only in the same way as your equally well-known everyday name. "Secure information" of the sort used in security routines to check identity is of a different class from common or public names and identifiers. Identity checking information should be kept secret, as far as is practicable, from everything but the security checking facility itself.

Since many sorts of security checking identifiers are easily discovered (e.g. shoulder surfing discovers passwords) it's generally more secure to have security identity checking routines that use multiple factors. If the multiple factors can be of different sorts and include at least one that's very hard or impossible the copy, all to the good.

This can be summarised as: use multiple security factors of at least three types: something you know (e.g. a password); something you have (e.g. a physical dongle); and something you are (e.g. a fingerprint or iris pattern).

Of course, even these can be discovered and even emulated, once they become digits in a security checking system. Security checking software itself needs to be secure from being accessed by the unauthorised.

************
Having an identifier containing all of your public names (everyday name, NHS number, NI number, CyclingUK membership number; etc.) is not a security risk unless you used such an identifier in a security checking routine when you should have used something else, something unshared and secret between you and the security checking facility.

Cugel