New crowd-funded entry into the conversion market

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc.
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philg
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New crowd-funded entry into the conversion market

Postby philg » 21 Jun 2020, 1:45pm

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the- ... sion-kit#/

Looks extremely neat with wireless pedal sensor and display, just one cable linking front hub motor to the bottle cage mounted battery pack.

52V battery too with two capacity options, £542 not unreasonable IMO

The company have been supplying Loaded with electric skateboards since 2016 apparently

lowrider
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Re: New crowd-funded entry into the conversion market

Postby lowrider » 21 Jun 2020, 5:04pm

In principle this looks good but I would want a lot more detail before committing, I am suspicious that they dont quote the battery capacity, even the big ones look quite small the range quoted looks optimistic to me (as always). I think they have missed a trick if they had mounted the battery in a similar manner to Swytch, then it really would have made it a very easy install.

The big issue is that their not promising delivery until the end of the year, far too long, even if their on time.

Jdsk
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Re: New crowd-funded entry into the conversion market

Postby Jdsk » 21 Jun 2020, 5:18pm

"52V 3Ah 150Wh Battery"
"52V 7Ah 350Wh Battery"

(Click the options down the RHS.)

Jonathan

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philg
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Re: New crowd-funded entry into the conversion market

Postby philg » 21 Jun 2020, 5:44pm

lowrider wrote:In principle this looks good but I would want a lot more detail before committing, I am suspicious that they dont quote the battery capacity, even the big ones look quite small the range quoted looks optimistic to me (as always). I think they have missed a trick if they had mounted the battery in a similar manner to Swytch, then it really would have made it a very easy install.

The big issue is that their not promising delivery until the end of the year, far too long, even if their on time.

Capacities as above

I have a Swytch system, bought under the same Indiegogo scheme, and had to wait 9 months for delivery!
I don't regret this purchase at all, though I wasn't aware of the financial risk involved in these funding schemes.

Based on my Swytch experience over the last 16 months, I'd say 50 miles was entirely achievable on normal to undulating terrain.
The battery capacity is 350Whr compared to 360 for the Swytch, but operating at the higher voltage should give it the edge - obviously dependent on whose cells they use, the 2 year warranty implies confidence (assuming!)

Given it has just the one connecting cable, then I'd prefer the battery to be on the downtube - better weight distribution and it frees up space on the bars. The Swytch is mounted on the bars by necessity due to the integration of battery, controller and display.
This new system by using wireless comms allows a more flexible arrangement IMO.

hemo
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Re: New crowd-funded entry into the conversion market

Postby hemo » 21 Jun 2020, 11:13pm

52v falls outside of EU/UK directives for legality.

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philg
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Re: New crowd-funded entry into the conversion market

Postby philg » 22 Jun 2020, 6:29am

hemo wrote:52v falls outside of EU/UK directives for legality.

Isn't the low voltage limit 60V, which these batteries even fully charged meet (58.8V)?
ETA: The LVD is 75Vdc

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Re: New crowd-funded entry into the conversion market

Postby hemo » 22 Jun 2020, 9:20am

Afaik the EU has set a 48v limit which Woosh bikes are taking as a nominal value & pedelecs aren't covered by the LVD.
On the new Wisper bikes they have gone with 11s/40v as the nominal voltage giving a max 46.2v output.

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philg
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Re: New crowd-funded entry into the conversion market

Postby philg » 22 Jun 2020, 9:39am

I cannot find any reference to support that, and AFAIK the LVD applies to all electrics in the EU, no exceptions?

Seeing as this new mob are based in Spain and supposedly have a few years of relevant (e-skateboards) experience, one would expect them to be familiar with EU legislation!

Maybe Whoosh haven't been able to source 52V battery kit from China yet :lol:

hemo
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Re: New crowd-funded entry into the conversion market

Postby hemo » 22 Jun 2020, 9:47am

BS EN15194 : 2017 is the latest update for the UK, harmonising with EU EAPC regs.


This European Standard applies to EPAC bicycles for private and commercial use with exception of EPAC intended for hire from unattended station. This European Standard is intended to cover all common significant hazards, hazardous situations and events (see Clause 4) of electrically power assisted bicycles, when used as intended and under condition of misuse that are reasonably foreseeable by the manufacturer. This European Standard is intended to cover electrically power assisted bicycles of a type which have a maximum continuous rated power of 0,25 kW, of which the output is progressively reduced and finally cut off as the EPAC reaches a speed of 25 km/h, or sooner, if the cyclist stops pedalling. This European Standard specifies requirements and test methods for engine power management systems, electrical circuits including the charging system for the design and assembly of electrically power assisted bicycles and sub-assemblies for systems having a rated voltage up to and including 48 V d.c. or integrated battery charger with a nominal 230 V a.c. input. This European Standard specifies safety and safety related performance requirements for the design, assembly, and testing of EPAC bicycles and subassemblies intended for use on public roads, and lays down guidelines for instructions on the use and care of such bicycles. This European Standard applies to EPAC bicycles that have a maximum saddle height of 635 mm or more and that are intended for use on public roads. This European Standard is not applicable to EPACs which are manufactured before the date of its pub

hemo
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Re: New crowd-funded entry into the conversion market

Postby hemo » 22 Jun 2020, 9:53am

philg wrote:I cannot find any reference to support that, and AFAIK the LVD applies to all electrics in the EU, no exceptions?

Seeing as this new mob are based in Spain and supposedly have a few years of relevant (e-skateboards) experience, one would expect them to be familiar with EU legislation!

Maybe Whoosh haven't been able to source 52V battery kit from China yet :lol:


The bikes/kits are legal to sell but not legal to use on the roads under EAPC rules unless registered as a non EAPC vehicle, it is down to the end user if they wish to so must accept any penalties if prosecuted.

The likes of Woosh have a 52v test bike but have resisted introduction due to the EU legislation, Even the 48v bikes/kits are NOT wholly legal as they are nominative rather then maximum voltage.
Last edited by hemo on 22 Jun 2020, 4:41pm, edited 1 time in total.

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philg
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Re: New crowd-funded entry into the conversion market

Postby philg » 22 Jun 2020, 10:09am

hemo wrote:BS EN15194 : 2017 is the latest update for the UK, harmonising with EU EAPC regs.

This European Standard applies to EPAC bicycles that have a maximum saddle height of 635 mm or more and that are intended for use on public roads. This European Standard is not applicable to EPACs which are manufactured before the date of its pub

Thanks Hemo, interesting!

Some thoughts
1. 635mm saddle height is clearly discriminatory against tall people on upright bikes :) - so are some recumbents safe from this nonsense then?
2. For a bike conversion, which is what we are talking about here, when is the relevant manufacture date? - conversion date or donor bike date?

This has familiar echoes of previous legisation - IIRC throttles?

stodd
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Re: New crowd-funded entry into the conversion market

Postby stodd » 22 Jun 2020, 11:50am

philg wrote:1. 635mm saddle height is clearly discriminatory against tall people on upright bikes :) - so are some recumbents safe from this nonsense then?

Anything that does not fall under these regulations would fall under more restrictive regulations, not less. That is unless it came under some other specific and more relaxed regime, I don't think there is a relevant one.

hemo
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Re: New crowd-funded entry into the conversion market

Postby hemo » 22 Jun 2020, 4:29pm

Going back to the voltage regulation there is no maximum voltage referred to just up to and including 48vdc so this means any nominal 48v battery, so 12s & 13s we know are classed as 48v. The 52v is 14s and theoretically is outside of any 48v rating.

hemo
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Re: New crowd-funded entry into the conversion market

Postby hemo » 22 Jun 2020, 4:45pm

The UK regs were updated to include tri and quad cycles with the weight limit removed, I think this applied to OEM supplied models but like bicycle conversions there is no specific legislation relating to them however if they adhere to the EPAC regs then they should remain acceptable.