Anyone living in new lock down areas?

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pwa
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Re: Anyone living in new lock down areas?

Postby pwa » 16 Oct 2020, 8:40am

Tangled Metal wrote:And he told the officers to fine him because he wasn't going to tell anyone to leave. That's a good scouser!!

Aiui other nations give an exemption to lockdowns to gyms because of the obvious health benefits of exercise.

Exercise is easily done outdoors. Even I manage to do it. Outdoor activities tend to be safer.

pwa
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Re: Anyone living in new lock down areas?

Postby pwa » 16 Oct 2020, 8:54am

One thing that mystifies me is why there are not more physical modifications to care homes to allow indoor visits in safety. All that is needed is a bit of DIY with perspex and timber to provide visitors with a cubicle and a reserved exit / entry, along with a bit if disinfectant work. Okay, it will look a lot like old fashioned prison visits, but surely that is better than nothing. It is better than not seeing your family at all during what may be your final year.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Anyone living in new lock down areas?

Postby Tangled Metal » 16 Oct 2020, 9:12am

pwa wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:And he told the officers to fine him because he wasn't going to tell anyone to leave. That's a good scouser!!

Aiui other nations give an exemption to lockdowns to gyms because of the obvious health benefits of exercise.

Exercise is easily done outdoors. Even I manage to do it. Outdoor activities tend to be safer.

Get a bit of reality check. Busy lives mean a lot of people exercise in the evening. It's dark right now and some people simply don't feel safe exercising outdoors, particularly women and more vulnerable people. It's bad enough people don't see roads as safe for cycling in daytime let alone in the evening in the dark.

Then you've got the feeling safer environment of a gym or organised exercise group or class. You can probably see there's an advantage in gyms being open if the choice is keeping them open or a lot of people putting exercise on hold because gyms are closed.

Personally I don't really care because I always felt ripped off by gyms. The ones I could get to charged a lot more than better ones further afield. I resented that so cancelled my membership even though I was a big user of that gym. I now mostly exercise either commuting, dog walking or simply getting out and about at the weekends. I'm possibly not doing enough but I rarely drop below 12000 steps and I do more than the recommended weekly hours of exercise if the HR tracker I use is correct.

I find other means to exercise, but I'm a 6'5" Male with martial arts / self defence training who never encounters trouble for some reason. My partner isn't and has to receive during the daytime when jogging routes have more people around. She works from home so can do that.

Do not underestimate the effect of feeling safe vs unsafe. It plays into a lot of activity choices. Besides if you follow the science, that's a joke nobody does, then gyms have a low transmission rate and the benefits outweigh the risks by some way apparently. It's why other nations than England often kept gyms open even when they closed other facilities.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Anyone living in new lock down areas?

Postby Tangled Metal » 16 Oct 2020, 9:16am

Heard one guy describe how he went into the next room to his wife who was admitted to a care home due to dementia. During the quarantine period they were both in he was the only one able to be with her without mask which was important for dementia sufferers. That's commitment!

Dementia is hard for all concerned, I'm sure many people know that through family occurrence of it.

pwa
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Re: Anyone living in new lock down areas?

Postby pwa » 16 Oct 2020, 9:32am

Tangled Metal wrote:Get a bit of reality check. Busy lives mean a lot of people exercise in the evening. It's dark right now and some people simply don't feel safe exercising outdoors, particularly women and more vulnerable people. It's bad enough people don't see roads as safe for cycling in daytime let alone in the evening in the dark.....
.

I'll think about it. I must admit I have never used a gym, having been thoroughly put off indoor exercise by PE at school in the 1970s. And my view of them is coloured, probably unfairly, by the muscle-bound roid-heads who drive their cars aggressively and don't care about anyone other than themselves. I don't imagine them socially distancing. Your view of gyms is of places populated by more normal people. Perhaps you are right.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Anyone living in new lock down areas?

Postby Tangled Metal » 16 Oct 2020, 9:45am

pwa wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Get a bit of reality check. Busy lives mean a lot of people exercise in the evening. It's dark right now and some people simply don't feel safe exercising outdoors, particularly women and more vulnerable people. It's bad enough people don't see roads as safe for cycling in daytime let alone in the evening in the dark.....
.

I'll think about it. I must admit I have never used a gym, having been thoroughly put off indoor exercise by PE at school in the 1970s. And my view of them is coloured, probably unfairly, by the muscle-bound roid-heads who drive their cars aggressively and don't care about anyone other than themselves. I don't imagine them socially distancing. Your view of gyms is of places populated by more normal people. Perhaps you are right.

Sorry! That post came across a bit confrontational. I didn't mean it like that only wanted to make the point that sometimes confident and "able to handle themselves" types don't see what others see. I'm as guilty of that as others. I get my reality check from my 5'3 and a half" (that half is very important :lol: ) other half.

I simply don't see risks she does. That's despite her being more adventurous than I'll ever be. Solo tours into remote parts of SE Asia that were experiencing tribal wars at the time. Also, I think you can understand that the interior of PNG could be considered unsafe for westerners back when they so rarely seen there. However in this country she sees the risks and feels them strongly. If she wasn't so busy she'd be into activism around personal transport and safety. She cycles to work over an hour and a quarter each way despite not feeling safe. Credit to her but it shouldn't be so difficult.

Nobody should feel unsafe you ride a bike or exercise but they do. It's why I feel overlaying our feelings on risks to them over choosing to only gym it for fitness is wrong, it's our inability to make outdoors exercise safe for all that means imho that gyms should be kept open.

Of course there's always weight lifting in the food serving pub. It's what MickF might call cross training!!! :lol:

You can see how ridiculous things are in England over covid?!

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Paulatic
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Re: Anyone living in new lock down areas?

Postby Paulatic » 16 Oct 2020, 9:49am

At my local outdoor shop head torches are flying off the shelves. Lots of people preparing for outdoor exercise in the dark.
Tangled Metal wrote:Besides if you follow the science, that's a joke nobody does, then gyms have a low transmission rate

Where do you get this information from and as gyms were closed until infection figures fell how accurate might they be?
Buy stirks from an enclosed auction mart this time of year and it’s more or less guaranteed one you buy will have a viral pneumonia in a few days time. Buy privately and you’re more or less guaranteed to be Infection free.
Tangled Metal wrote:It's dark right now and some people simply don't feel safe exercising outdoors, particularly women and more vulnerable people

I’ve no doubt that is sadly true and needs addressing. Surely there must be ways around it?
Tangled Metal wrote:Then you've got the feeling safer environment of a gym or organised exercise group or class

Personally I wouldn’t feel safe in a gym or my beloved squash court. What I’m missing most about organised exercise groups is the chat before and after. My highlight of the week is meeting a checkout operator. :lol:
Whatever I am, wherever I am, this is me. This is my life

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pwa
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Re: Anyone living in new lock down areas?

Postby pwa » 16 Oct 2020, 9:52am

Tangled Metal wrote:
pwa wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Get a bit of reality check. Busy lives mean a lot of people exercise in the evening. It's dark right now and some people simply don't feel safe exercising outdoors, particularly women and more vulnerable people. It's bad enough people don't see roads as safe for cycling in daytime let alone in the evening in the dark.....
.

I'll think about it. I must admit I have never used a gym, having been thoroughly put off indoor exercise by PE at school in the 1970s. And my view of them is coloured, probably unfairly, by the muscle-bound roid-heads who drive their cars aggressively and don't care about anyone other than themselves. I don't imagine them socially distancing. Your view of gyms is of places populated by more normal people. Perhaps you are right.

Sorry! That post came across a bit confrontational. I didn't mean it like that only wanted to make the point that sometimes confident and "able to handle themselves" types don't see what others see. I'm as guilty of that as others. I get my reality check from my 5'3 and a half" (that half is very important :lol: ) other half.

I simply don't see risks she does. That's despite her being more adventurous than I'll ever be. Solo tours into remote parts of SE Asia that were experiencing tribal wars at the time. Also, I think you can understand that the interior of PNG could be considered unsafe for westerners back when they so rarely seen there. However in this country she sees the risks and feels them strongly. If she wasn't so busy she'd be into activism around personal transport and safety. She cycles to work over an hour and a quarter each way despite not feeling safe. Credit to her but it shouldn't be so difficult.

Nobody should feel unsafe you ride a bike or exercise but they do. It's why I feel overlaying our feelings on risks to them over choosing to only gym it for fitness is wrong, it's our inability to make outdoors exercise safe for all that means imho that gyms should be kept open.

Of course there's always weight lifting in the food serving pub. It's what MickF might call cross training!!! :lol:

You can see how ridiculous things are in England over covid?!

Don't worry, I didn't take your post as confrontational.

The sensible approach might be to allow gyms to stay open but to have daily inspections to ensure mitigating measures are being stuck to, so there is no slipping into sloppy practice.

Jdsk
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Re: Anyone living in new lock down areas?

Postby Jdsk » 16 Oct 2020, 9:52am

Paulatic wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:It's dark right now and some people simply don't feel safe exercising outdoors, particularly women and more vulnerable people

I’ve no doubt that is sadly true and needs addressing. Surely there must be ways around it?

One of the many things that have got lost in the confused messaging.

Jonathan

Jdsk
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Re: Anyone living in new lock down areas?

Postby Jdsk » 16 Oct 2020, 9:59am

pwa wrote:One thing that mystifies me is why there are not more physical modifications to care homes to allow indoor visits in safety. All that is needed is a bit of DIY with perspex and timber to provide visitors with a cubicle and a reserved exit / entry, along with a bit if disinfectant work. Okay, it will look a lot like old fashioned prison visits, but surely that is better than nothing. It is better than not seeing your family at all during what may be your final year.

Those issues have been a nightmare for healthcare premises. Most of them weren't designed for it. Many social care premises are converted domestic residences and would be even harder.

As well as the construction there's the air changes, the cleaning between users, and the procedures and opportunity costs for the staff who would move with the residents.

Then there's knowing the infectious status of the residents, the visitors and the staff. And the performance of the national Test and Trace system shows little sign of reaching competence, especially in turnaround time.

Jonathan

PS: Many secondary care functions say they're running at about 30% of usual throughput. A large part of of that loss is related to difficulties with premises.
Last edited by Jdsk on 16 Oct 2020, 10:10am, edited 1 time in total.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Anyone living in new lock down areas?

Postby Tangled Metal » 16 Oct 2020, 10:10am

It was something I heard on the news (radio more likely but I can't remember) that transmission rates were lower in gyms. Comment from an expert who I took as a good source but also recently repeated by a gym owner in liverpool which isn't a good source for obvious reasons.

We are all different with different views on everything. Headtorches flying off the shelves in your area could simply mean there's more need for the lights. It doesn't mean the feeling of increased risk in outdoors exercise in the dark isn't present in a large number of people. My local gym used to cater for older people quite well. Also people referred for exercise due to health issues. Both groups less likely to replace those gym sessions with solo or even group outdoors exercise I reckon.

The toning tables were very popular with morbidly obese as a safe way to start on exercise for health. I remember two ladies who I used to question the value of those table sessions. Not least because they didn't seem to change while doing it for a long time. Changes must have been internally because eventually they were fit enough to walk on treadmills. After that and the move to bikes anyone could see the weight and bulk go down. Fair play to them but outside exercise wouldn't have done that. Or they wouldn't have kept up with it. That's just one user type. There will be many more.

Gym closures without replacing them with suitable alternatives will not be a good thing. I just can't see the suitable alternatives if it's perceived risks and other issues that kept them in the gyms in the first place.

mercalia
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Re: Anyone living in new lock down areas?

Postby mercalia » 16 Oct 2020, 11:13am

Tangled Metal wrote:It was something I heard on the news (radio more likely but I can't remember) that transmission rates were lower in gyms. Comment from an expert who I took as a good source but also recently repeated by a gym owner in liverpool which isn't a good source for obvious reasons.

We are all different with different views on everything. Headtorches flying off the shelves in your area could simply mean there's more need for the lights. It doesn't mean the feeling of increased risk in outdoors exercise in the dark isn't present in a large number of people. My local gym used to cater for older people quite well. Also people referred for exercise due to health issues. Both groups less likely to replace those gym sessions with solo or even group outdoors exercise I reckon.

The toning tables were very popular with morbidly obese as a safe way to start on exercise for health. I remember two ladies who I used to question the value of those table sessions. Not least because they didn't seem to change while doing it for a long time. Changes must have been internally because eventually they were fit enough to walk on treadmills. After that and the move to bikes anyone could see the weight and bulk go down. Fair play to them but outside exercise wouldn't have done that. Or they wouldn't have kept up with it. That's just one user type. There will be many more.

Gym closures without replacing them with suitable alternatives will not be a good thing. I just can't see the suitable alternatives if it's perceived risks and other issues that kept them in the gyms in the first place.


they could try walking to the shops? I dont know about covid and gyms but it has long been speculated that gyms are like schools in picking up bugs

Tangled Metal
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Re: Anyone living in new lock down areas?

Postby Tangled Metal » 16 Oct 2020, 12:17pm

Speculation was disproven with schools due to covid studies aiui from various government advisers being interviewed and being asked about schools transmission. Apparently research has disproven the idea that school transmission is more significant rate than the average community transmission. Myths linger on.

pwa
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Re: Anyone living in new lock down areas?

Postby pwa » 16 Oct 2020, 12:24pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Speculation was disproven with schools due to covid studies aiui from various government advisers being interviewed and being asked about schools transmission. Apparently research has disproven the idea that school transmission is more significant rate than the average community transmission. Myths linger on.

You hear one thing one week and the opposite the next week. We were being told that pubs don't have a significant role in transmission, then last week one of the top SAGE people (was it Whitty?) said pubs and hospitality were behind something like a third of transmissions. You don't know what to believe.

I have never believed schools do not have a significant role in transmission. It defies logic. I think people want schools to be safe because not having the kids in school is a terrible thought. But if there is a better way of linking families in a chain of transmission, I don't know what it is.