Cycling UK Forum

Whatabout park holidays, centre parcs for example, do they have the advantages of cruising without the disadvantages?
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I remember using cruiseferries on the North Sea, it was wonderful to get on the ship after a long drive, 20 hours without concerning oneself with where to stop, fill up etc
Just had to puzzle out which film to see
I love going out on deck to watch the ships, weather, water, then in the morning the announcements in four languages, 'please to *proceed* to your vehicle

One hopes ferries may experience a renaissance, as flying should be less popular in future

Oldjohnw wrote:It is a view based on the evidence all around us.i researched to see if I was wrong and of there were changes. I discovered it still happens and is legal.

No it's not, it's a biased view that you've backed up by "evidence" 17 years out of date!

Surely you can see that?

Cyril Haearn wrote:I am concerned about the legal situation, a ship with thousands of people on board is like a small town, are there rules, laws, even police?

There's a whole raft of "rules of the sea" although from your POV they're just the same as being on dry land.

Like aircraft the captain has ultimate say. If he wants you in the brig then it's to the brig you go, if he wants you off the ship then say goodbye.
Don't think they make you walk the plank though - the height of those ships could be a long fall.

I think the engines are pretty quiet.
From what I can gather noise is mainly an issue if you're near one of the crew 'doors' or above the stage, nightclubs etc.

kwackers wrote:

Ben@Forest wrote:I read that Police Scotland have had to stop 'wild camping' in several locations where it was no longer really 'wild' and damage and littering could no longer be tolerated - and that was pre-Covid.

I think "wild camping" is just youth code for "lets meet in the woods and have a pss up and party all night".

there were reports some time ago of places in glasgow selling wild camping kits that included a large case of lager, a throw-away-tent and a throw-away barbicue. You just headed up to loch lomand and went wild for the night - abandon everything in the morning, do it all again the following weekend. Think they have made laws now to stop wild camping at Loch Lomand, so now the eejits are trashing Perthshire and the borders,

kwackers wrote:

Oldjohnw wrote:It is a view based on the evidence all around us.i researched to see if I was wrong and of there were changes. I discovered it still happens and is legal.

No it's not, it's a biased view that you've backed up by "evidence" 17 years out of date!

Surely you can see that?

I apologize. I didn't check the date with this article. But there is plenty of evidence around.

https://www.businessinsider.com/plastic ... sh-2019-10

Oldjohnw wrote:https://www.businessinsider.com/plastic ... sh-2019-10

But even from that article:

"A new study found that the primary source of single-use plastic bottles that wash ashore in the south Atlantic Ocean is likely Chinese merchant marine vessels."

That's merchant marine - not cruise.

There's a huge difference between merchant and cruise.
Hardly anyone can put pressure on merchant vessels other than governments with legislation and even then there are so many of them that policing them is an issue.
The only real solution here imo is a complete ban on single use plastics.

Cruise ships on the other hand are pretty sensitive to what their customers want and they will bend to pressure.

Here's a link to what Princess Cruises say about what they're doing https://www.princess.com/aboutus/environmental-responsibility/
(I chose Princess because that's who I would have sailed with had the cruise gone ahead but others will almost certainly have similar pages).

What's interesting if we read your old article and assume that's the state of cruising 17 years ago and then compare it to what Princess are claiming now - that's a huge change and they will only continue to improve as more and more 'ordinary' people demand better environmental protection.
To me that's a win.

Now if only we can figure out how to get merchant ships to clean up - they are by far and away the biggest polluters at all levels then we'd be on the home run.
For all the reasons to hate cruise ships there really aren't that many of them in comparison...
(314 in 2018 compared to 53,700 total ships in the same year)

Look , I made a throw away comment that I wouldn't be surprised if cruise ships dumped rubbish following someone saying they wouldn't do that now. There was a fairly recent case where, despite the law, a company got a multi million pound fine for dumping. I made the mistake of rising to a challenge to make a serious case: I fell right into a trap and quoted an old report.

My bad.

Oldjohnw wrote:Look , I made a throw away comment that I wouldn't be surprised if cruise ships dumped rubbish following someone saying they wouldn't do that now. There was a fairly recent case where, despite the law, a company got a multi million pound fine for dumping. I made the mistake of rising to a challenge to make a serious case: I fell right into a trap and quoted an old report.

My bad.

Trap? I never tried to trap you, I simply pointed out what was wrong.

I'm not trying to defend cruising here, I'm far more interested in folk using nonsense to back up their claim - even if it's just an assumption.
Others reading your posts may superficially assume you've made a valid point and the nonsense spreads...

We all cherry pick information to suit ourselves, I've certainly been guilty of it in the past and I'll be honest it's annoying when someone pulls you up about it.
But we live and learn and one of the lessons is just because something is written on the web it isn't true or may no longer be true.

That's not to say your 17 year old article isn't without merit - we can see it as a snapshot of the issues back then as I did above and compare it to the state of play today.
I think we can both agree that as long as things are improving then that's a plus.

kwackers wrote:

Oldjohnw wrote:Look , I made a throw away comment that I wouldn't be surprised if cruise ships dumped rubbish following someone saying they wouldn't do that now. There was a fairly recent case where, despite the law, a company got a multi million pound fine for dumping. I made the mistake of rising to a challenge to make a serious case: I fell right into a trap and quoted an old report.

My bad.

Trap? I never tried to trap you, I simply pointed out what was wrong.

I'm not trying to defend cruising here, I'm far more interested in folk using nonsense to back up their claim - even if it's just an assumption.
Others reading your posts may superficially assume you've made a valid point and the nonsense spreads...

We all cherry pick information to suit ourselves, I've certainly been guilty of it in the past and I'll be honest it's annoying when someone pulls you up about it.
But we live and learn and one of the lessons is just because something is written on the web it isn't true or may no longer be true.

That's not to say your 17 year old article isn't without merit - we can see it as a snapshot of the issues back then as I did above and compare it to the state of play today.
I think we can both agree that as long as things are improving then that's a plus.

I fell into a trap of my own making.

Long before the Ruby Princess in Sydney covid outbreak there were fairly regular gastro outbreaks reported on cruise ships.

Mike

Mike_Ayling wrote:Long before the Ruby Princess in Sydney covid outbreak there were fairly regular gastro outbreaks reported on cruise ships.

Mike

And schools, and places of work and - in fact pretty much anywhere people congregate.
Having been on ships I'd warrant they make more effort to prevent such things than your typical place of work.

This offers a definitive insight into cruises

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055831/?ref_=ttfc_fc_tt

Apparently Williams and Hawtrey were uplifted by message of film

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055831/?ref_=ttfc_fc_tt

I have never seen the attraction of being at sea. Sea is just an absence of land. And we are land creatures. When I get on a ship, as I have done many times to get to Ireland, I long for the moment I can get off it. Okay, a cruise ship is a floating hotel / spa / entertainment complex, but for me that does not make it better. I'm thinking updated and posher Butlins with a huge moat to make sure you can't escape. Frankly, I'd sooner be at work than on a holiday like that.

pwa wrote:I have never seen the attraction of being at sea. Sea is just an absence of land. And we are land creatures. When I get on a ship, as I have done many times to get to Ireland, I long for the moment I can get off it. Okay, a cruise ship is a floating hotel / spa / entertainment complex, but for me that does not make it better. I'm thinking updated and posher Butlins with a huge moat to make sure you can't escape. Frankly, I'd sooner be at work than on a holiday like that.

Funny you should mention Butlins. There was a huge uptake of holiday camp vacations in the 50's and 60's before the advent of packaged holidays abroad.
Butlins had some similarities with cruising.
All inclusive holidays with entertainment and activities on site. If you wished you need never leave the site
Fixed price
Outbreaks of food poisoning

Even smell worse than a circus

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2017 ... lly-circus