Sea cruises: Why? Why not?

[mumbojumbo]

Also on TV,Channel4,bang after Hollyoaks

3 July 2017
Every year 1.9 million people in the UK go on a cruise, Channel 4 Dispatches investigates the negative impact that cruising can have on the environment and the health of passengers.



Ultra-fine particulate air pollution in some areas of cruise ships found to be DOUBLE that of central London.
Heavy Fuel Oil, used by large ships, is legally permitted to contain 3,500 times more sulphur than is allowed in road fuel.
Environmentalists claim one cruise ship emits as much particulate matter every day as 1 million cars.


UK passenger numbers on cruises have risen by 60% in the last decade. With 448 cruise liners in operation around the world, the industry is worth an estimated £91 billion.

Dispatches went undercover on P&O Cruises, Britain’s most popular cruise operator. P&O Cruises’ owner, Carnival Corporation & PLC, claims that it is a ‘responsible global citizen’ with one former executive claiming, “We are committed to protecting the environment, particularly the marine environment where our vessels sail every day.”

Dispatches travelled on P&O Cruises’ ship Oceana, which is over 250m long, 15 storeys high and can carry more than 2,000 passengers.

[al_yrpal]

I have never seen the attraction of being at sea. Sea is just an absence of land. And we are land creatures. When I get on a ship, as I have done many times to get to Ireland, I long for the moment I can get off it. Okay, a cruise ship is a floating hotel / spa / entertainment complex, but for me that does not make it better. I'm thinking updated and posher Butlins with a huge moat to make sure you can't escape. Frankly, I'd sooner be at work than on a holiday like that.

Whilst that may be correct for the many people that visit the Med or the Carribean in a cruise ship again and again it isnt universally true. Two of the three cruises I have been on covered inaccessible places of natural beauty and couldnt have been visited any other way - the South Atlantic and Antarctica and the stretch of coast north of British Columbia taking in Alaska. The third was a trip on the Diamond Princess from Beijing to Singapore and every country and big city of note in between. A way of visiting 7 different countries with only two flights. Cruising is a very relaxing and physically undemanding way of seeing places and very easy and enjoyable for aged folk. Wake up in a new port every morning, explore and return to the ship for a nice meal and drinks, a show etc. I expect the killjoys will be telling us we should be really just be sitting in our well insulated homes watching the thermostat but thats not living. Truth is theres just too many of us already....

Al

[kwackers]

Also on TV,Channel4,bang after Hollyoaks

3 July 2017
Every year 1.9 million people in the UK go on a cruise, Channel 4 Dispatches investigates the negative impact that cruising can have on the environment and the health of passengers.



Ultra-fine particulate air pollution in some areas of cruise ships found to be DOUBLE that of central London.
Heavy Fuel Oil, used by large ships, is legally permitted to contain 3,500 times more sulphur than is allowed in road fuel.
Environmentalists claim one cruise ship emits as much particulate matter every day as 1 million cars.


UK passenger numbers on cruises have risen by 60% in the last decade. With 448 cruise liners in operation around the world, the industry is worth an estimated £91 billion.

Dispatches went undercover on P&O Cruises, Britain’s most popular cruise operator. P&O Cruises’ owner, Carnival Corporation & PLC, claims that it is a ‘responsible global citizen’ with one former executive claiming, “We are committed to protecting the environment, particularly the marine environment where our vessels sail every day.”

Dispatches travelled on P&O Cruises’ ship Oceana, which is over 250m long, 15 storeys high and can carry more than 2,000 passengers.

I linked to a page earlier that showed that at least one cruise ship company is spending millions fitting exhaust clean up equipment to their ships. They also burn low sulphur fuel in coastal waters and where it's provided rely on umbilicals for power when docked.

Change is happening fairly quickly whilst your articles are "only" 3 years old (based on information somewhat older) quite a number of ships have been refitted in that 3 years.
The reality is that the ships shipping your goodies around the world are a vastly bigger issue particularly as they have no pressure from consumers to improve but cruise ships are an easy target, they're ostentatious, seen as a bit 'posh' by a lot of folk - easy things to hate I suspect.


But as the saying goes; "haters will hate".

[al_yrpal]

I have motored my yacht across the Channel in a flat calm many times. All around the horizon is usually a deep yellow ring of pollution visible. Every 90 seconds or so in both directions steam large freighters doing about 17 knots, many with considerable plume of filth coming out of the funnel. Brittany Ferries use light lower polluting fuel oil. Big ships use heavy fuel oil that they heat and centrifuge to make it less viscous and cleaner to burn in their massive diesels.

Al

[francovendee]

Shipping goods around the world is an economic necessity, cruising is a holiday option that increasing numbers of people are doing.
It is/was a very profitable business hence the rapid increase of these massive ships.

[Cyril Haearn]

A couple of us have been on cruises and liked them, many who have not cruised are against
Anyone been on a cruise and not liked it?
..
I read about lucky-dip cabins, the cabin number is disclosed when one goes on board, not before

[Ben@Forest]

A couple of us have been on cruises and liked them, many who have not cruised are against
Anyone been on a cruise and not liked it?

Not a cruise but did 29 hours on the Bilbao - Portsmouth ferry. I was bored out of my tree, I'd just finished a cycle tour and had nothing to read (this was before easy electronic media). The onboard cinema and library were both closed. The shop only sold books of the Tom Clancy or Catherine Cookson genre and l read something dire out of sheer frustration.

But it was possible to see cetaceans - and when eating steak and chips and drinking a glass of red the view was of a pod of leaping dolphins keeping pace with the ship. I can't say I've ever had a better restaurant view.

[Cyril Haearn]

Plusminus, sort of torture
I should have tried to relax, meditate, do nothing, watch the sea, relax
I found it very good on the ship to be 'powerless', nothing to decide
With a bit of luck one can have worthwhile encounters with other travellers

[kwackers]

Shipping goods around the world is an economic necessity, cruising is a holiday option that increasing numbers of people are doing.
It is/was a very profitable business hence the rapid increase of these massive ships.

Necessity?

I beg to differ.
The majority of goods being shipped are not necessary at all, trinkets pandering to consumerism.
I don't see that as any worse or better than having the occasional holiday on one.

Out of all the ships on the ocean cruise ships account for a tiny percentage of all the traffic and are easily the cleanest.
John posted a link further up which talked about the vast amount of rubbish dumped in the ocean by commercial shipping.

I'm all for cleaning up shipping, I think it's a must. But the problem needs tackling across all ships, cruise or commercial otherwise we're arguing about whether the cat has (or hasn't) pissed in the house whilst ignoring the elephant taking a dump in the living room.

[Cyril Haearn]

Right again kwackers, NZ should keep its butter and lamb

[mumbojumbo]

[quote]The majority of goods being shipped are not necessary at all, trinkets pandering to consumerism.
I don't see that as any worse or better than having the occasional holiday on one.
[/quote

I think your assertion is both speculative in terms of accuracy,and judgementakl in tone.

!.the majority of goods etc-are you including foodstuffs such as wheat barley etc
2.trinkets oandering etc

The occasioanal cruise must cost at least £500 per person-what trinkets are of acomparable cost?

[kwackers]

The majority of goods being shipped are not necessary at all, trinkets pandering to consumerism.
I don't see that as any worse or better than having the occasional holiday on one.

I think your assertion is both speculative in terms of accuracy,and judgementakl in tone.

!.the majority of goods etc-are you including foodstuffs such as wheat barley etc
2.trinkets oandering etc

The occasioanal cruise must cost at least £500 per person-what trinkets are of acomparable cost?

Speculative? Really?

The majority of goods coming into this country through the docks aren't food.
Those huge container ships aren't full of food.
The Chinese don't export millions of tons of food every year.
Take a look around the clothes shops, DIY shops, garden centres, car and motorcycle dealers, bicycle shops - in fact almost anywhere.
The majority of the stuff in them is imported and a lot of it doesn't need to be, either because it's not really needed and destined for landfill or it could be made over here.

How can you claim I'm being judgemental when you're criticising other people for taking cruises but apparently not for importing stuff they don't need?
As I said: "I don't see that as any worse or better than having the occasional holiday on one."

[francovendee]

Shipping goods around the world is an economic necessity, cruising is a holiday option that increasing numbers of people are doing.
It is/was a very profitable business hence the rapid increase of these massive ships.

Necessity?

I beg to differ.
The majority of goods being shipped are not necessary at all, trinkets pandering to consumerism.
I don't see that as any worse or better than having the occasional holiday on one.

Out of all the ships on the ocean cruise ships account for a tiny percentage of all the traffic and are easily the cleanest.
John posted a link further up which talked about the vast amount of rubbish dumped in the ocean by commercial shipping.

I'm all for cleaning up shipping, I think it's a must. But the problem needs tackling across all ships, cruise or commercial otherwise we're arguing about whether the cat has (or hasn't) pissed in the house whilst ignoring the elephant taking a dump in the living room.

Unfortunately if it was just 'trinkets' then I'd agree with you and view both cargo vessels and cruise ships as a luxury and not a necessity but it's not.
How do you think grain, ores, steel, cars, gas, oil etc. etc could be moved without them?
Cargo vessels are polluters and need to be improved but they are far more necessary to our daily lives than cruise liners.

[kwackers]

Unfortunately if it was just 'trinkets' then I'd agree with you and view both cargo vessels and cruise ships as a luxury and not a necessity but it's not.
How do you think grain, ores, steel, cars, gas, oil etc. etc could be moved without them?
Cargo vessels are polluters and need to be improved but they are far more necessary to our daily lives than cruise liners.

Out of those 50 odd thousand commercial vessels how many do you think are needed to move the above mentioned stuff and how many to move the detritus that fills our shops?

Even in your list a lot of that could be rationalised. With better energy management we wouldn't need as much gas and oil, better transport means less cars (plus if we weren't hell bent on destroying our car industry we could import less).
In simple terms the vast majority of our consumption isn't on essential items.

As for holidays on cruise ships, who am I to say whether you should go on one? Who's to say what the mental benefits are of holidays? I've no idea, do you?

I'll put this very simply:
I honestly don't give a crap what you buy, how you holiday, what you eat or whatever.
My entire view can be summed up by saying that whatever it is we do it should be paid for in full including it's disposal, recycling, pollution etc with the ideal being that it's 100% sustainable.
That can't be achieved by individuals, it has to be put in place by the state and policed by the state. You and me have no say in how our goods are transported other than by whom we vote in.

IMO the human race will die out arguing about the detail without doing anything about the bigger picture because we're petty like that.

[al_yrpal]

If we could rejig our economy to become less reliant on imports it would be great but the reality is its not going to happen. The sort of thing that enrages me is where they export prawns landed at Malaig and then fly them to Asia for deshelling and then fly them back here. Cargo on ships is a very environmentally friendly shipping method compared with air freight.
We do need to get back to Cutty Sark days but she couldnt compete with the tea transporting steamships in the end.
Perhaps a TV drama series following events in a totally environmentally friendly society might make people think. Sailing ships, insulated homes, bicycles, plastic packaging free, no aeroplanes, ...

Al