I don't think I'd want a carbon frame on a touring bike. For me carbon and steel are for different things. I view my carbon and steel framed bikes the same way I view my running shoes and walking boots or shoes.
Dave
Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames
Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames
You just don't "get it".djnotts wrote:Why would anyone WANT a bike that lasts for years? I just get bored.
Do you buy a bike just to sell it later, so you have to consider depreciation?
Most(?) of us buy a bike and keep it.
My Mercian was first built up in 1986 and has gone through many transformations in gearing and braking and pedals and saddles and wheels. Trigger's Broom maybe, but it's still the same bike to me.
Mick F. Cornwall
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Bonefishblues
- Posts: 11399
- Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
- Location: Near Bicester Oxon
Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames
Sweep wrote:djnotts wrote:Why would anyone WANT a bike that lasts for years? I just get bored.
...
! A grand a year depreciation is neither here nor there.
takes all sorts.
I look forward to your bike sale posts.
(but not the carbon ones)
Never mind sales, I'm looking in his bins
Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames
Mick F wrote:You just don't "get it".djnotts wrote:Why would anyone WANT a bike that lasts for years? I just get bored.
Do you buy a bike just to sell it later, so you have to consider depreciation?
Most(?) of us buy a bike and keep it.
My Mercian was first built up in 1986 and has gone through many transformations in gearing and braking and pedals and saddles and wheels. Trigger's Broom maybe, but it's still the same bike to me.
I'm with djnotts then.I just don't get it either
I had a Specialized Enduro Expert MTB in 2004(I also had the 06/08/10/12 model
).I saw one the other day and thought to myself "did I really have one of those it looks horrible".As with anything I always buy a bike with resale value in mind!Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames
Mick F wrote:You just don't "get it".djnotts wrote:Why would anyone WANT a bike that lasts for years? I just get bored.
Do you buy a bike just to sell it later, so you have to consider depreciation?
Most(?) of us buy a bike and keep it.
My Mercian was first built up in 1986 and has gone through many transformations in gearing and braking and pedals and saddles and wheels. Trigger's Broom maybe, but it's still the same bike to me.
+1 to that Mick.
Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames
Whilst it's obviously possible to design and manufacture very good carbon frames, which I imagine could have quite long lifespans, most manufacturers probably rely on the low expectations and product knowledge of many (most?) customers and make inferior quality frames, knowing that they can get away with it because most customers will accept the short lifespan and/or will sell their bike after only a few years or even just a couple of years.
Perversely, despite the usually much lower price point, the purchasers of mass market steel frames/bikes are likely to have much higher expectations of the quality of the frame, and the manufacturers/brands know they cannot hope to get away with poor design, workmanship or QC in the way that might be possible with carbon fibre.
BITD it might not be easy to identify a poor quality steel frame visually, e.g. one where the framebuilder had been careless and not ensured that the lug/tube gap was properly filled with solder. In contrast nowadays a poor weld in a modern TIG steel frame is more likely to be visible, and it's the carbon fibre frames and forks whose external appearance gives no assurance of the quality, and which have a lot more scope for poor design and workmanship to be hiding under the paint and the outer cosmetic layer of fibre.
Perversely, despite the usually much lower price point, the purchasers of mass market steel frames/bikes are likely to have much higher expectations of the quality of the frame, and the manufacturers/brands know they cannot hope to get away with poor design, workmanship or QC in the way that might be possible with carbon fibre.
BITD it might not be easy to identify a poor quality steel frame visually, e.g. one where the framebuilder had been careless and not ensured that the lug/tube gap was properly filled with solder. In contrast nowadays a poor weld in a modern TIG steel frame is more likely to be visible, and it's the carbon fibre frames and forks whose external appearance gives no assurance of the quality, and which have a lot more scope for poor design and workmanship to be hiding under the paint and the outer cosmetic layer of fibre.
Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames
I don't buy bikes, I buy framesets and build them up with a mix of existing kit and some new bits. It generally takes me a year or so to get the resulting bike so that it feels perfect, perfect in a way that no off-the-peg bike ever could. Then I keep that bike going (replacing things as they wear out) for an absolute minimum of ten years and more likely twenty. The bike evolves over that time but at no point is it ever a clone of someone else's bike with a name and number telling you exactly what it comprises. It is always individual. Getting rid of an entire bike after a year or two is just alien to me. I could afford to do that, but I'd not want to do that, just as I wouldn't trash my garden and start from scratch every couple of years.
But is riding carbon always so throw-away? Aren't there people who report keeping a carbon frame for ten or fifteen years?
But is riding carbon always so throw-away? Aren't there people who report keeping a carbon frame for ten or fifteen years?
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Gmtanderson
- Posts: 7
- Joined: 22 May 2020, 3:18pm
Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames
As with anything it’s all personal preference, I’m in my late twenties and absolutely love belting about as fast as I can with my heart beating out of my chest like I’m about to have a cardiac arrest. For me carbon does it best, I like the lightness, stiffness and aerodynamics. I would also like a nice steel bike for pottering around on and using as a pub bike, something with a tanned brown leather seat and cool bar tape 
Enjoy what you enjoy, if you want go balls to the floor fast get a carbon machine, if you want to read the daily express and wear a neckerchief get a steel bike
Love, love and love.
Enjoy what you enjoy, if you want go balls to the floor fast get a carbon machine, if you want to read the daily express and wear a neckerchief get a steel bike
Love, love and love.
Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames
pwa wrote:I don't buy bikes, I buy framesets and build them up with a mix of existing kit and some new bits. It generally takes me a year or so to get the resulting bike so that it feels perfect, perfect in a way that no off-the-peg bike ever could. Then I keep that bike going (replacing things as they wear out) for an absolute minimum of ten years and more likely twenty. The bike evolves over that time but at no point is it ever a clone of someone else's bike with a name and number telling you exactly what it comprises. It is always individual. Getting rid of an entire bike after a year or two is just alien to me. I could afford to do that, but I'd not want to do that, just as I wouldn't trash my garden and start from scratch every couple of years.
But is riding carbon always so throw-away? Aren't there people who report keeping a carbon frame for ten or fifteen years?
I could have written that myself pwa. I'm riding my 1981 Pennine which I still ride daily - it's done 240 mile rides occasionally, 150-180ish mile rides weekly (in summer), commuted 20 miles daily - heavy-laden touring/camping in Outer Hebrides, Scottish Highlands, Yorkshire Dales...........and once a 25mile hilly time-trial (it would have won with a better rider on it!) - it was resprayed about 5 years ago - can't tell you how many miles it's done or how many wheel rims it's worn out. During this bad time (due to virus) it's had it's panniers and come shopping with me. It's had brakes upgraded, gears re-ratio'd as I've got older, three new saddles, updated with A-Head stem and quill, bent more rear spindles that the average Financial Services organisation...........but the same lovely-riding frame. It does all that everyone else's road/touring bike does.
Each to their own, of course, but I don't see the benefit in following the latest fashion, buying (frequently) the latest toys, bragging because I have the latest bit of flash etc, etc, etc. My bikes have done their job. Accidents excepted, I can't see a rational reason to change.
But, as I say, each to their own.
Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames
Gmtanderson wrote:As with anything it’s all personal preference, I’m in my late twenties and absolutely love belting about as fast as I can with my heart beating out of my chest like I’m about to have a cardiac arrest. For me carbon does it best, I like the lightness, stiffness and aerodynamics. I would also like a nice steel bike for pottering around on and using as a pub bike, something with a tanned brown leather seat and cool bar tape
Enjoy what you enjoy, if you want go balls to the floor fast get a carbon machine, if you want to read the daily express and wear a neckerchief get a steel bike
Love, love and love.
You're not being serious of course.
I wouldn't recommend leaving your body-parts on the road.
If you ride like you talk, please be carful and considerate to others on cyclepaths, Greenways etc.
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Gmtanderson
- Posts: 7
- Joined: 22 May 2020, 3:18pm
Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames
JohnW wrote:Gmtanderson wrote:As with anything it’s all personal preference, I’m in my late twenties and absolutely love belting about as fast as I can with my heart beating out of my chest like I’m about to have a cardiac arrest. For me carbon does it best, I like the lightness, stiffness and aerodynamics. I would also like a nice steel bike for pottering around on and using as a pub bike, something with a tanned brown leather seat and cool bar tape
Enjoy what you enjoy, if you want go balls to the floor fast get a carbon machine, if you want to read the daily express and wear a neckerchief get a steel bike
Love, love and love.
You're not being serious of course.
I wouldn't recommend leaving your body-parts on the road.
If you ride like you talk, please be carful and considerate to others on cyclepaths, Greenways etc.
I do ride like I talk but on the training circuits and race courses around my area! not on cycle paths obviously!
Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames
Gmtanderson wrote:As with anything it’s all personal preference
Absolutely. It's just that a lot of people's personal preference is based on quite limited personal experience and knowledge and is influenced heavily by manufacturers' marketing.
Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames
Gmtanderson wrote:JohnW wrote:Gmtanderson wrote:As with anything it’s all personal preference, I’m in my late twenties and absolutely love belting about as fast as I can with my heart beating out of my chest like I’m about to have a cardiac arrest. For me carbon does it best, I like the lightness, stiffness and aerodynamics. I would also like a nice steel bike for pottering around on and using as a pub bike, something with a tanned brown leather seat and cool bar tape
Enjoy what you enjoy, if you want go balls to the floor fast get a carbon machine, if you want to read the daily express and wear a neckerchief get a steel bike
Love, love and love.
You're not being serious of course.
I wouldn't recommend leaving your body-parts on the road.
If you ride like you talk, please be carful and considerate to others on cyclepaths, Greenways etc.
I do ride like I talk but on the training circuits and race courses around my area! not on cycle paths obviously!
You are very lucky to have race courses and training circuits, suitable for cycling, in your locality.
Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames
Gmtanderson wrote:As with anything it’s all personal preference, I’m in my late twenties and absolutely love belting about as fast as I can with my heart beating out of my chest like I’m about to have a cardiac arrest. For me carbon does it best, I like the lightness, stiffness and aerodynamics. I would also like a nice steel bike for pottering around on and using as a pub bike, something with a tanned brown leather seat and cool bar tape
Enjoy what you enjoy, if you want go balls to the floor fast get a carbon machine, if you want to read the daily express and wear a neckerchief get a steel bike
Love, love and love.
The frame is a very small component of total drag. Maybe get some tighter clothes.
The main advantages of carbon are for the manufacturer - higher selling price and built-in obsolescence.
Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames
Some of my comments slightly tongue-in-cheek, altho I do change bikes quite frequently, if less so than in the past. I certainly don't follow fashion dictates. My most oft ridden bike since I acquired it about a year ago is an early 90s hand built 531 tourer, altho I do not tour! Next an original '95 Fire Mountain.
My carbon ktm was ex-demo, nearest I have bought to "new" for about 15 years. Chosen because carbon triples thin on the ground. I always let someone else take the big depreciation hit!
I would however very much like carbon with room for big tyres and guards and triple-like low gearing. My lung.capacity is very limited and I need all the help I can get on hills.
Carbon rigid on my "modern" steel Kona Blink with 2" tyres also helps my damaged wrists.
I do modify nearly all my bikes for gearing and comfort, but once done I have tended to move to the next project. I bore easily!
This practice is lessening. Health dictates that almost certainly less than 18 months of cycling (and indeed living) left to me so the 5 bikes I have will see me out!
Many of my fellow local CTC riders use carbon and I have come across no premature failures.
My carbon ktm was ex-demo, nearest I have bought to "new" for about 15 years. Chosen because carbon triples thin on the ground. I always let someone else take the big depreciation hit!
I would however very much like carbon with room for big tyres and guards and triple-like low gearing. My lung.capacity is very limited and I need all the help I can get on hills.
Carbon rigid on my "modern" steel Kona Blink with 2" tyres also helps my damaged wrists.
I do modify nearly all my bikes for gearing and comfort, but once done I have tended to move to the next project. I bore easily!
This practice is lessening. Health dictates that almost certainly less than 18 months of cycling (and indeed living) left to me so the 5 bikes I have will see me out!
Many of my fellow local CTC riders use carbon and I have come across no premature failures.