Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames

[djnotts]

especially the bar tape....?....



cheer

"The workers' flag is red and black ....."

Never mind the bar tape... what are the bars? Make, model etc. They look a bit like the '50s Philippe.

Salsa Cowchipper 2s. I like them very much.

[slowster]

As with anything it’s all personal preference

Absolutely. It's just that a lot of people's personal preference is based on quite limited personal experience and knowledge and is influenced heavily by manufacturers' marketing.

And a lot of people's personal preference is based on quite limited personal experience and knowledge and influenced heavily by familiarity with decades old technology, which while solid, reliable and economical, may be far less fun to use than the latest toys.

True, but whereas someone in their twenties thinks their carbon bike is superior to steel but has little or no experience of the latter, some of us have had/ridden both the old toys and the new toys.

[Sweep]

I don't buy bikes, I buy framesets and build them up with a mix of existing kit and some new bits. It generally takes me a year or so to get the resulting bike so that it feels perfect, perfect in a way that no off-the-peg bike ever could. Then I keep that bike going (replacing things as they wear out) for an absolute minimum of ten years and more likely twenty. The bike evolves over that time but at no point is it ever a clone of someone else's bike with a name and number telling you exactly what it comprises. It is always individual. Getting rid of an entire bike after a year or two is just alien to me. I could afford to do that, but I'd not want to do that, just as I wouldn't trash my garden and start from scratch every couple of years.

But is riding carbon always so throw-away? Aren't there people who report keeping a carbon frame for ten or fifteen years?

I could have written that myself pwa. I'm riding my 1981 Pennine which I still ride daily - it's done 240 mile rides occasionally, 150-180ish mile rides weekly (in summer), commuted 20 miles daily - heavy-laden touring/camping in Outer Hebrides, Scottish Highlands, Yorkshire Dales...........and once a 25mile hilly time-trial (it would have won with a better rider on it!) - it was resprayed about 5 years ago - can't tell you how many miles it's done or how many wheel rims it's worn out. During this bad time (due to virus) it's had it's panniers and come shopping with me. It's had brakes upgraded, gears re-ratio'd as I've got older, three new saddles, updated with A-Head stem and quill, bent more rear spindles that the average Financial Services organisation...........but the same lovely-riding frame. It does all that everyone else's road/touring bike does.

Each to their own, of course, but I don't see the benefit in following the latest fashion, buying (frequently) the latest toys, bragging because I have the latest bit of flash etc, etc, etc. My bikes have done their job. Accidents excepted, I can't see a rational reason to change.

But, as I say, each to their own.

+1 to all this.
from yorkshire I see

[foxyrider]

Back to the original post, whilst the particular issue is unique to CF, failure of frames of all materials isn't. I've had a 531 chainstay split along its length (2 years old), BB threads in a steel frame self destruct (2 months old!), horrendous corrosion on an Al road bike (@ 2 yo), total failure of a frame tube on another Al machine (10 yo) etc, etc but i've not (up to now) had any sort of frame failure in CF (or CF component for that matter).

My bikes do get a fair bit of abuse, even the CF gets used on trails, they do hard miles 12 months of the year, these are no fair weather bikes. I do expect to get a few years out of a bike, one frame is 40 years old, a couple more are over ten, the CF is 6 years old. Don't get me wrong, if i had the dosh i'd be down the shops like a flash but i don't so i don't, my newest bike is 5 years old and i expect that frame to still be in use far into the future.

[Shoogle]

The way I see it is - carbon for sport, steel and aluminium for everything else.

[Cyril Haearn]

'yet another'
What are the other reasons?

[peetee]

'yet another'
What are the other reasons?

Fork/steerer joint failure, front mech boss failure, gear cable stop fracture, bottle bosses loose, excess resin stopping gear hanger from sitting straight.
As for bottom bracket creaks, IME there does seem to be a fair smattering of owners who don’t bother to get the problem investigated. Rather, they are willing to accept this bugbear as the price you have to pay for a high performance frame.

[Pebble]

biggest cause for failure on steel frames is the riders body packing in. (made up stat)

with plenty love and care my 1980s steelie will make that magic 100,000 mile mark - but I often wonder if I will, as for creaks from the bottom, well they be the least of my worries.

[Brucey]

….as for creaks from the bottom, well they be the least of my worries.

once the bottom starts 'creaking' the same probably can't be said for others in the near vicinity...?...

cheers

[tim-b]

Hi

Why on earth would anyone want a carbon touring bike?

Perhaps you could ask this chap (link), he's a tourist and top engineer. I haven't seen a photo with luggage but there's more to touring than bags, and front and rear mount points are fitted
Regards
tim-b

[Sweep]

Back to the original post, whilst the particular issue is unique to CF, failure of frames of all materials isn't. I've had a 531 chainstay split along its length (2 years old), BB threads in a steel frame self destruct (2 months old!),

Couldn't the BB shell be rethreaded?

[Sweep]

Hi

Why on earth would anyone want a carbon touring bike?

Perhaps you could ask this chap (link), he's a tourist and top engineer. I haven't seen a photo with luggage but there's more to touring than bags, and front and rear mount points are fitted
Regards
tim-b

Early in the day, but can't see the relevance of that link.
Look forward to pics of a carbon framed bike carrying a touring luggage load (ie not a bit of boutique bike packing on a photoshoot sports bike) and someone telling me what the pluses/advantages are of a carbon frame for this use.

[tim-b]

Hi
The potential problems with any frame are design and quality control (QC). CF frames could be made to include materials that don't have the potential (sorry ) to corrode when in contact with one another. Passivated stainless steel or titanium (or monocoque CF if appropriate) would probably be long-lasting

Fork/steerer joint failure

Choose monocoque CF forks (no joints in the oft-used sense)

Front mech boss failure, gear cable stop fracture, excess resin stopping gear hanger from sitting straight

These are design/QC issues rather than a fault with CF frames. Warranty job (and some manufacturers provide a lifetime warranty)

Bottle bosses loose

Rivnuts? Can happen when inserted into any material, tighten them

We live in a disposable society and most buyers will be more than happy with their CF frame for the lifetime of the bike. When the transmission wears out it's often better value for money to buy the latest groupset with a new bike than to search for and buy a NOS transmission groupset. Many people don't want to stick with 8-speed when they can have 12-speed and the manufacturers are happy to provide what their customers want. I've used CF monocoque forks for 15 years and provided that you avoid obvious problems that would affect any material then they've been absolutely fine
Regards
tim-b

[alexnharvey]

Chris Juden, who posts here as CJ and was formerly technical officer for the CTC has a carbon framed bike based on a planetx 'holdsworth'-branded mystique frame. I don't think it's a tourer though so I think Sweep is right to question the relevance.

There is a picture of it here https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/how-b ... t-bike-you

[tim-b]

Hi

Early in the day, but can't see the relevance of that link

What isn't clear? As suggested you could ask or wait to see what he thinks

Look forward to pics of a carbon framed bike carrying a touring luggage load (ie not a bit of boutique bike packing on a photoshoot sports bike

Fastest woman around the world too boutique? On a CF bike and the majority was unsupported, which by definition is surely a touring luggage load
Pluses and minuses are all in the eye of the beholder. Your touring luggage load and requirements are different to mine (or hers)
Regards
tim-b