Railcards for ex Armed Forces.

[reohn2]

People living near where they work and being able to afford houses there too might be better. If everyone commuted by foot then how many tonnes of pollution could be taken out of the environment. Even cycling is a second choice behind walking distance. Plus more use of footwear that can be resoled too so less consumerism needed.

But that requires a complete change in the way people live,and at a time when successive governments have failed to build enough housing.
Unless something changes PDQ it ain't gonna happen.

If global warming is truly A THING, and I'm inclined to think it is, then whether the government likes it or not there will have to be change.

Going off the blather and glacial changes of the past 30 years .and the "market will decide" being the mantra for the past forty years and I see no change from the short neoliberalist regemes around the world,it's all waayyy too late IMO

[Tangled Metal]

They're only hoping that the Med will become desert and England gets a Mediterranean climate and the tourist crowds. Is that too tin hat conspiracy theorist for you?

[pete75]

+1 farm workers (not farmers) might be able to afford houses in the countryside instead commuting from towns or cities. Can't see a problem there.

There's not that many farm workers these days and they mostly live in houses provided by the farmer they work for. The exception are those working for the contractors used by many arable farmers these days and seasonal harvest workers though the latter may be provided with temporary accommodation. It doesn't really many where they live as they will be travelling all over the place.

Other than contract and seasonal workers I've never heard of farm workers commuting from towns or cities and housing there is certainly no cheaper t than in villages. An ex council house in our nearest town sells for quite a bit more than in the villages. There's one for sale in the next village to me £110,000. A similar property in the nearest town, six miles away, is around £150,000.

Have you spent much time in the North West of England lately?
You appear to be relating very much to the norm in your area. As long ago as 15-20 years ago I interviewed a guy for a job was presently commuting from his home in Tebay to herd a Lake District farm where there was no opportunity of a residence. A 60 ml round trip commute I’ve also known for years a guy who lived in Euxton yet managed a farm near Blackpool. The reason being there are so many opportunities now which do not come with a residence. Anyone keen to take those opportunities has a different life to the ones available 40 years ago.
Just looking around my own area many privately owned farms have sold off cottages. Rented opportunities the estates have sold or rented out their properties. A lot of land becomes available without the farmhouse now. Infact a farm within two miles of me here was Crown estate. Crown sold off the two cottages and then put the previously rented farm on the market giving the current owner no chance to buy the cottages as they were already sold. The farm came with a farmhouse the owner doesn’t need so it housed one worker and others travelled in from nearby towns. It’s a really unsatisfactory arrangement and currently without a resident stockman the house is being split into two houses to ease the situation.
The area of east Lyndsey im familiar with the estate owned nearly all the village. The estate has sold off a lot of houses over the years I’ve been visiting but still own a lot and as yet no shortage to house their workers.

The Lake District is distorted by the demand for tourist properties. I doubt if Tangled Metal's idea of rural depopulation causing falling house prices would have much effect there.

From what you say farmers and landowners in your area decided to sell off their tied houses and to hell with the workers.
That doesn't seem to have happened here to any great extent. Mostly they've sold or rent out some properties but kept what they need for their employees. For example a friend rents out about 40 houses which were formerly lived in by farm workers. She's retained enough houses for the people she employs. That's on a big farm over 3,000 acres so it employed lost of people at one time.
Another friend with just 600 acres took on an extra full time worker bought a house in the village for him to live in.
Farmers are often thought to be tight Bs after every penny. Some might be like that but others aren't and often feel an obligation to their employees that goes beyond just paying a wage. Farm wages still aren't brilliant so a free or very low rent house is a good thing for a worker.

[Cyril Haearn]

Farm hours are not so attractive either, I fear
Are they not regulated by law?

[Tangled Metal]

What I referred to is housing going up in price in the countryside such that there is no longer places agricultural workers can afford so they commute often the opposite way to industrial, professional and office based workers. Not depopulation lowering prices. More that it's shifting populations. Townies moving to countryside and country workers moving to town.

I'm moving to a village out in the sticks but on a reliable train line to Manchester. It's one of the more costly places to live for you're housing you can get for your money. I could get a decent sized 5 bed house in one of the better areas of morecambe for less than our 3 bed bungalow. I could probably get an 8 + bed house in the less well to do areas of morecambe for south of £100k although the specialist cleaners cost a packet to make it habitable I reckon.

In the village nearest to my farming friend, actually a hamlet, you've got to think £300k plus for the cheapest house. Sub £100k can still get you decent in morecambe I think. Plus there's decent rentals for not so much in town. A young lad with GF and toddler (=1 working adult/ income on part time irregular work) and you've got no chances of getting on the homing ladder in the country.

[Tangled Metal]

Can't you work any hours if you've signed yourself out of the working hours directive? Occupation has little to do with that.

[reohn2]

They're only hoping that the Med will become desert and England gets a Mediterranean climate and the tourist crowds. Is that too tin hat conspiracy theorist for you?

Err?

[pete75]

Can't you work any hours if you've signed yourself out of the working hours directive? Occupation has little to do with that.

You can. The working hours directive says you can't be made to work more than 48 hours a week on average over about a 4 month period. You can choose to work more if you want to.

[pete75]

What I referred to is housing going up in price in the countryside such that there is no longer places agricultural workers can afford so they commute often the opposite way to industrial, professional and office based workers. Not depopulation lowering prices. More that it's shifting populations. Townies moving to countryside and country workers moving to town.

I'm moving to a village out in the sticks but on a reliable train line to Manchester. It's one of the more costly places to live for you're housing you can get for your money. I could get a decent sized 5 bed house in one of the better areas of morecambe for less than our 3 bed bungalow. I could probably get an 8 + bed house in the less well to do areas of morecambe for south of £100k although the specialist cleaners cost a packet to make it habitable I reckon.

In the village nearest to my farming friend, actually a hamlet, you've got to think £300k plus for the cheapest house. Sub £100k can still get you decent in morecambe I think. Plus there's decent rentals for not so much in town. A young lad with GF and toddler (=1 working adult/ income on part time irregular work) and you've got no chances of getting on the homing ladder in the country.

Oh yeah?

Now that would lead to the countryside becoming depopulated as hardly anybody there is employed locally any more.

+1 farm workers (not farmers) might be able to afford houses in the countryside instead commuting from towns or cities. Can't see a problem there.

[mjr]

Perhaps free railcard to nhs staff, fire and rescue staff, police too? Where can the line be drawn?

It would be less messy to just ensure people are paid properly in the first place, then they can pay the same price as everybody else for railcards or whatever.

Amen, but then the railways would have to launch an Anyone Railcard, like civilised countries have, and end the ageism and so on of the current system.

[Tangled Metal]

What I referred to is housing going up in price in the countryside such that there is no longer places agricultural workers can afford so they commute often the opposite way to industrial, professional and office based workers. Not depopulation lowering prices. More that it's shifting populations. Townies moving to countryside and country workers moving to town.

I'm moving to a village out in the sticks but on a reliable train line to Manchester. It's one of the more costly places to live for you're housing you can get for your money. I could get a decent sized 5 bed house in one of the better areas of morecambe for less than our 3 bed bungalow. I could probably get an 8 + bed house in the less well to do areas of morecambe for south of £100k although the specialist cleaners cost a packet to make it habitable I reckon.

In the village nearest to my farming friend, actually a hamlet, you've got to think £300k plus for the cheapest house. Sub £100k can still get you decent in morecambe I think. Plus there's decent rentals for not so much in town. A young lad with GF and toddler (=1 working adult/ income on part time irregular work) and you've got no chances of getting on the homing ladder in the country.

Oh yeah?

Now that would lead to the countryside becoming depopulated as hardly anybody there is employed locally any more.

+1 farm workers (not farmers) might be able to afford houses in the countryside instead commuting from towns or cities. Can't see a problem there.

Ash that'll explain it. In typing on my phone and there's something going on with Samsung swipe keyboard. I nm put a not between might and afford. But for some reason I get words deleted then in typing but nothing appears. It's weird. I have to go to home screen then back again and what I've typed appears or disappears.

If anyone knows what's going on please let me know.

[mjr]

Rail travel pricing is stupid in the extreme.
Why we need a discount card, or have to do research or go by different routes is beyond me!
However, you MUST do these things or you'll pay through the nose.

And therein lies the problem. It's hassle for people so they go by car instead. And don't forget that the hassle is added to that of getting to and from the station, plus on a holiday or similar, getting about to various other places.

Yet most Brits ignore the hassle of going by another route by car to save time or money (sometimes having their route and/or arrival time changed mid journey!), and that driving is basically work which they aren't getting paid for.

No hassle to get to a station. Buses from the stops 100m away go right there in 15-20mins.

[paddler]

Rail travel pricing is stupid in the extreme.
Why we need a discount card, or have to do research or go by different routes is beyond me!
However, you MUST do these things or you'll pay through the nose.

And therein lies the problem. It's hassle for people so they go by car instead. And don't forget that the hassle is added to that of getting to and from the station, plus on a holiday or similar, getting about to various other places.

Yet most Brits ignore the hassle of going by another route by car to save time or money (sometimes having their route and/or arrival time changed mid journey!), and that driving is basically work which they aren't getting paid for.

No hassle to get to a station. Buses from the stops 100m away go right there in 15-20mins.

You speak for yourself. If a person - and I'm one - say it's hassle then it is. As for driving being work, the same applies. It's not work for me, plus if I want to go somewhere else mid journey I can. Not so easy on a train.

As others have said, the whole transport thing needs to change to make it attractive. As R2 says, no sign of that at the moment.

[pwa]

And therein lies the problem. It's hassle for people so they go by car instead. And don't forget that the hassle is added to that of getting to and from the station, plus on a holiday or similar, getting about to various other places.

Yet most Brits ignore the hassle of going by another route by car to save time or money (sometimes having their route and/or arrival time changed mid journey!), and that driving is basically work which they aren't getting paid for.

No hassle to get to a station. Buses from the stops 100m away go right there in 15-20mins.

You speak for yourself. If a person - and I'm one - say it's hassle then it is. As for driving being work, the same applies. It's not work for me, plus if I want to go somewhere else mid journey I can. Not so easy on a train.

As others have said, the whole transport thing needs to change to make it attractive. As R2 says, no sign of that at the moment.

The last time I used trains it seemed to me that as a form of transport it was too popular, with carriages rammed full with standing passengers. I regretted not doing the journey by car because then, at least, I would have had a seat. I felt like a mug for paying through the nose to be treated worse than you are allowed to treat cattle being transported. Capacity is one of the big problems with trains. Too many bottoms with too few seats.

[landsurfer]

And now the trains are empty .... a full service every day moving air around the country ..... !!! Thats it ... the case of spreading C-19 ... CONTAMINATED AIR BEING MOVED AROUND THE COUNTRY BY TRAIN !!!
Seriously though .... we are on depots and stations every day ... empty carriage after empty carriage .... how long is this sustainable ...