PD-MX30 lockbolt anomaly

[Brucey]

A friend of mine has an older set of PD-MX30 'DX' pedals which are flatties but which use the same kind of spindle and bearing system as is found in many SPD pedals, including a 'plastic pastrycutter' type lockbolt . His bearings are shot, so the hunt is on for some compatible spindles etc, ideally with new lockbolts, because they are a bit chewed up too. His look a bit like this:



At first sight I thought 'they look a lot like spindles from PD-M545' because of the lockbolt and the chrome-plated spindle. "This'll be easy" I thought, just double check the EV techdoc; when this match is confirmed, it'll just be a question of finding compatible spindles and lockbolts. Compatible ones were easy for PD-M545 because as well as 'A' type matches there were lots of SPD models which use spindles and lockbolts which are listed as 'B' type matches too, i.e. they will fit but the parts differ in colour/finish. You can easily end up with a set of unique pedals by swapping parts round this way.

Imagine my surprise when I looked at the current PD-MX30 EV techdoc

https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/storage/pdf/en/ev/PD-MX30/EV-PD-MX30-1840C.pdf

only to find that it has been revised to include metal hexagon headed lockbolts instead, as have more recently manufactured PD-MX30 pedals. This was compounded by looking at the EV doc for PD-M545 and found a similar thing

https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/storage/pdf/en/ev/PD-M545/EV-PD-M545-1752B.pdf




Revised lockbolts are PNs Y-41F 98080 (R), Y-41F 98090 (L) respectively. The photos above are from a Japanese website and (I think) shows a trial fitment with a (gold anodised) lockbolt from PD-MX80 perhaps?

In theory this ought to mean that the revised lockbolts also fit older pedals that originally had the plastic ones, but is that really the case? Has anyone tried it? [I note with interest that in a Q/A on SJS's website they suggest it is always better to use the original style of parts rather than to chop and change.]

And does this mean that all the pedals for which the other parts are a type 'B' match are compatible with the new lockbolts too?

I have found an 'original' EV techdoc (in my paper archive, good thing I didn't ditch it) for PD-MX30. If I get around to it I will post an image of it here, and confirm the original PNs for the lockbolts etc. Ditto the older EV doc for PD-M545 too.

However I also note that some of the most recent SPDs use yet another flavour of lockbolt; these are aluminium, but have the pastrycutter fitting rather than the hexagon. I daresay there is another compatibility conundrum there too....

cheers

[Brucey]

PD-M545 grey 'pastrycutter' lockbolts (from a printed EV techdoc dated 1999) are Y-43Z 13000 (R) and Y-43Z 14000 (L) respectively.

These pns are listed as a type A match for

PD-M747
PD-6500
PD-M515
PD-A515
PD-M434
PD-M858
PD-M646
PD-5500
PD-6600
PD-6601

And a type B match for

PD-MX30 (pns Y-41K 07000 (R) Y-41K 08000 (L))
PD-M424 (pns Y-43Z 13100 (R) and Y-43Z 14200 (L)) -which are the same apart from the colour I think, these are black.

The black PD-M424 lockbolts are also listed as a type A match for

PD-R535
PD-M536
PD-M515 (in all-black finish presumably)
PD-M520 (same PNs)

Type B match for

PD-MX30 (original type presumably)
PD-A515 etc

The inference is that all the above PNs can be substituted for the later PD-MX30 and perhaps PD-MX80 type lockbolts.

cheers

[Brucey]

SJS list lockbolt Y-43Z 13100 (R, black) as a type A match with
- Shimano SPD PD-M545
- Shimano SPD PD-M536
- Shimano SLX SPD PD-M530
- Shimano SPD PD-M515
- Shimano SPD PD-M424
- Shimano Ultegra SPD-SL PD-6700
- Shimano Ultegra SPD-SL PD-6620
- Shimano Ultegra SPD-SL PD-6610
- Shimano 105 SPD-SL PD-5700
- Shimano 105 SPD-SL PD-5610
- Shimano 105 SPD-SL PD-5600
- Shimano SPD PD-A530
- Shimano SPD PD-A520
- Shimano SPD/Flat PD-EH500
- Shimano SPD PD-ED500
- Shimano Click’R PD-MT50
- Shimano SPD-SL PD-RS500
- Shimano SPD-SL PD-R670
- Shimano SPD-SL PD-R550
- Shimano SPD-SL PD-R540
- Shimano SPD-R PD-R535
- Shimano Click’R/Flat PD-T421
- Shimano Click’R PD-T420
- Shimano Click’R PD-T400

[rogerzilla]

"Yeah, but which of my pedals can I put the snazzy gold ones on?", thinks everyone.

[cycle tramp]

"Yeah, but which of my pedals can I put the snazzy gold ones on?", thinks everyone.

Er... I'm thinking 'thank goodness I stuck with pedals which use cup and cone bearings'... for something as simple as pedals, the manufacturers don't half like to complicate things...

[Brucey]

"Yeah, but which of my pedals can I put the snazzy gold ones on?", thinks everyone.

Er... I'm thinking 'thank goodness I stuck with pedals which use cup and cone bearings'... for something as simple as pedals, the manufacturers don't half like to complicate things...

Ahem.... the bearings in the pedals in question are cup and cone bearings.

A big difference is that when the bearings clap out you can replace the whole thing, whereas with conventional cup and cone bearings you can be stuck with trying to change the cups in the pedal bodies. Admittedly the tiny bearings are (given equivalent levels of neglect/abuse) more likely to wear prematurely, but then again they are better sealed and much easier to service too, so there is much less reason not to keep on top of it.

cheers

[Brucey]

"Yeah, but which of my pedals can I put the snazzy gold ones on?", thinks everyone.

well the answer is -provided the shimano supplied info is correct- potentially all the models mentioned in my first three posts.

Plus PD-M647, for which the whole spindle assembly listed as an 'A' fit with PD-MX80, meaning that the lockbolt must be too (although this isn't specifically listed on the EV doc for PD-MX80).

cheers

[rogerzilla]

Water has a very long way to travel up a greased lockbolt before it gets anywhere near the bearings on most SPDs, so they generally last extremely well. The Dura-Ace type is more vulnerable as there is a bearing race actually inboard of the pedal body, in the bulbous alloy housing. If water gets even a millimetre past the lip seal (which is no better than the seal on cheap models), a new axle assembly is £80.

Alloy "pastry cutter" lockbolts were being made by SRP and other aftermarket blingmongers 30 years ago. The plastic ones occasionally shear during removal and that can be the end of the pedal if it means the axle is stuck in place.

[Brucey]

... "pastry cutter" lockbolts …….. The plastic ones occasionally shear during removal and that can be the end of the pedal if it means the axle is stuck in place.

If the plastic ones shear they can be melted out. A bit messy but it works. You still need to overcome the fit between the bearing outer and the pedal body though.

FWIW the most common cause of shearing is that the thing is turned the wrong way. They shear off pretty easily then....

cheers

[rogerzilla]

Wouldn't you also melt the small bung inside the bearing unit, and destroy any lip seal? You's be in for a new axle unit, in either case, and they are not cheap.

[Brucey]

the small bung on the spindle doesn't seem to melt in the same way, possibly because it is deep inside the unit and you are heating the pedal from the outside. To my surprise it normally just takes a clean-up and a new lockbolt.

Of course if the seal is separate from the lockbolt you would pull it off the spindle before heating anyway.

cheers

[cycle tramp]

"Yeah, but which of my pedals can I put the snazzy gold ones on?", thinks everyone.

Er... I'm thinking 'thank goodness I stuck with pedals which use cup and cone bearings'... for something as simple as pedals, the manufacturers don't half like to complicate things...

Ahem.... the bearings in the pedals in question are cup and cone bearings.

A big difference is that when the bearings clap out you can replace the whole thing, whereas with conventional cup and cone bearings you can be stuck with trying to change the cups in the pedal bodies. Admittedly the tiny bearings are (given equivalent levels of neglect/abuse) more likely to wear prematurely, but then again they are better sealed and much easier to service too, so there is much less reason not to keep on top of it.

cheers

No wayyyyyy! Really? Tiny fiddly bearings... and all this was to prevent water egress into the pedal?

Wow - the thing is, to my mind there is enough metal in the pedal body (photographed at the start of this thread) for shimano to have designed it with a threaded m5 hole running into the bearing and have it blanked with a grub screw - then everytime you needed to blast the water out of the pedal, you just undid the grub screw, injected fresh grease into the pedal until it came out of the end and the pedals then good for another 6 months to a year.

Here's one I made earlier- like 17 years ago Rather than a grub screw I've used a grease port but it's still the same idea

I bought the pedals new for about 14 quid or something just to test the idea. Still going strong with a blast of grease every 3 to 8 months.

[Brucey]

the reasons for the shimano bearing system are severalfold and to be fair I don't agree with all of them, not by any means. I have also fitted lube ports to conventional pedals and have had long and fairly pain-free use out of them. 'Proper' pedal bearings are widely spaced, uniformly loaded and have 1/8" dia, or better, 5/32" balls in them. But if you are not going to have those and a lube port, the shimano arrangement is a pretty good alternative.

It is fairly pointless arrangement in a flat pedal though, and I think it is less well suited than in a SPD pedal; in a SPD pedal the loading on the bearings is (necessarily) fairly uniform but in a flat pedal the loading can be way off centre which the bearings are much less well suited to resist. But folk do like them.

When I first saw the shimano arrangement I didn't think it would last at all well, but I've tried my best to wear such bearings out and (provided they are regreased and adjusted as required) I have basically failed. In fact the usual thing is that they just get better and better. Maintenance intervals of six months to a year are normal. I find it is usually best to adjust the bearings every time they are regreased at first, but as time goes on this becomes less important.

cheers

[foxyrider]

None of my spd pedals (3prs of 545's, oldest 15 yrs, newest 5yrs) have ever been serviced despite going through many winters and kilometres of abuse. I consider pedals to be a level 2 consumable like headsets/BB's etc, if they become an issue they are replaced. Same for my Look system pedals, the bearings in even cheap Exustar examples have outlived the operating mechanism!

So whilst all the lists and compatability information is excellent its likely to be close to the day hell freezes over that i would need the information

excellent work tho' Brucey

[Brucey]

Water has a very long way to travel up a greased lockbolt before it gets anywhere near the bearings on most SPDs, so they generally last extremely well. The Dura-Ace type is more vulnerable....

worth mentioning that they are not all the same; the only 'true' SPD Dura Ace Pedals (PD-7410) use a long lockbolt and a similar arrangement to most other SPD pedals. The three-bearing DA pedals (which includes for toeclips, SPD-R and SPD-SL variants) don't all use the same bearing system as one another and this category doesn't include a 'true' SPD pedal.

cheers