Bob Jackson's is shutting up - IT IS NOW (sob) !!

[leftpoole]

Sadly, the market for high end steel frames is a lot smaller than it used to be. When I see a cyclist coming my way on what might be an interesting bike I watch as it passes, and I have noticed that nice steel frames are becoming a rarity. (I saw a nice Roberts yesterday.) This is very much a sector in decline and I wonder how little will be left in ten years. I guess someone, somewhere will be making bespoke framesets, but at a very high price point.

All my bikes for 50 years have been and will remain steel. There were 2 exceptions. I bought an aluminium Cannondale and sold within a month. Plus a very early 1994 Giant Cadex-1 week!
Steel will in my opinion never be bettered for a proper ride. All those on Carbon have usually not ridden steel. There are of course exceptions. Carbon is not ecologically friendly. Carbon bikes will deteriorate and fall to bits in around 6-10 years from my investigation into materials used for bike building.
So,,steel is and will always be best, and that is not just my opinion!

People are building planes from carbon composites though, and I'm sure they're expecting to get a bit longer service before, to paraphrase, the bloody wings fall off

I believe from what I’ve read, that the types of material
Used in aviation and indeed some F1 racing cars is not the same as that used in frames for bicycles. Plus bicycles are prone to very great deal of flexing under use. A twisted frame when peddling uphill standing up has not a great strength.

[leftpoole]

Resprays etc will become a thing of the past-people will be crating up frames for Taiwan.

There are numerous paint shops. One of if not the best, Argos Racing Cycles in Bristol. Fabulous paint jobs!

[leftpoole]

Given the amount of young frame builders around the UK at the moment They could not have tried very hard to recruit staff to carry the company forward.

You can't move for hipsters building steel.

Can't tell if you're being facetious or not?

How many young framebuilders do you think there actually are who are sticking bits of metal together, versus dreaming and talking about it? Maybe 20 or so in the UK?. How many of those would want to make it their career, rather than a hobby? Of those who remain, how many are in Leeds or are in a position to move there? Of those, how many will already be earning a salary higher than an apprentice framebuilder and willing to take a pay cut.

Try looking at the Bespoked website

[Bonefishblues]

All my bikes for 50 years have been and will remain steel. There were 2 exceptions. I bought an aluminium Cannondale and sold within a month. Plus a very early 1994 Giant Cadex-1 week!
Steel will in my opinion never be bettered for a proper ride. All those on Carbon have usually not ridden steel. There are of course exceptions. Carbon is not ecologically friendly. Carbon bikes will deteriorate and fall to bits in around 6-10 years from my investigation into materials used for bike building.
So,,steel is and will always be best, and that is not just my opinion!

People are building planes from carbon composites though, and I'm sure they're expecting to get a bit longer service before, to paraphrase, the bloody wings fall off

I believe from what I’ve read, that the types of material
Used in aviation and indeed some F1 racing cars is not the same as that used in frames for bicycles. Plus bicycles are prone to very great deal of flexing under use. A twisted frame when peddling uphill standing up has not a great strength.

One of the great benefits of carbon is that it can be laid up to quite precisely control flex. Now whether it is or isn't's another matter, as they say - I use carbon fibre sticks with some very precise characteristics in one of my other pastimes

[pwa]

The merits of steel or the alternatives are only relevant to this thread insofar as they influence the buyers. Things could change, but at the moment I see very few steel frames about, and even fewer from UK workshops. If they are selling well, people must be hiding them away. I think the reality is that the role of steel has shrunk a lot in the last twenty years, and it may still be shrinking. A young person venturing into steel frame making would be either brave or foolish.

[leftpoole]

The merits of steel or the alternatives are only relevant to this thread insofar as they influence the buyers. Things could change, but at the moment I see very few steel frames about, and even fewer from UK workshops. If they are selling well, people must be hiding them away. I think the reality is that the role of steel has shrunk a lot in the last twenty years, and it may still be shrinking. A young person venturing into steel frame making would be either brave or foolish.

Keep your eyes open. Many modern steel framed bikes about.

[Chat Noir]

So, my Bob Jackson frame has been finished and returned. Donald told me this was the final frame refurbished by them.

Don’t think we’ll see much in the way of replacements for companies like BJ: there are fewer traditional bike shops and frame builders anyway although I think there will always be some firms and individuals who continue to cater for those of us who like old and new steel bikes - they’ll be around for a long time yet. Nothing quite matches the pleasure of hurtling down things like Terrington Bank on a steel bike!

Were BJ any good? Their reputation is their legacy: skilled workmanship producing high quality bikes with excellent paint jobs. They repaired and refurbished other marques as well and for many they were simply the 'go-to' place. Judge for yourselves the quality of this workmanship.

The final picture leaning against a fence was near the end of a 2 day London-York ride the other year. This bike has done sterling service for me and I may have a go at a quickish end to end on it this summer, covid and fitness permitting: long days in the saddle on this bike don’t feel long, just the sheer pleasure of being out there on a bike - which is what cycling and cycle touring is all about really.

[scottg]

Woodrup Cycles has purchased the rights in conjunction with a another party.
It is not known if cycles under the Jackson name will be built in the future, tbd.
Former Jackson supplies, tools etc have been moved to Woodrup Cycles.

[PJ520]

The theft of the latter made me think it was a boater who broke in. What use would a random thief have for a book with damn all second hand value?

If it's not nailed down they'll steal it. I once had a Sustrans map stolen from my car, in Seattle! It could have been a wannabe bike tourist just yearning to see the sights in the UK but methinks not very likely.

[Jamesh]

Sadly, the market for high end steel frames is a lot smaller than it used to be. When I see a cyclist coming my way on what might be an interesting bike I watch as it passes, and I have noticed that nice steel frames are becoming a rarity. (I saw a nice Roberts yesterday.) This is very much a sector in decline and I wonder how little will be left in ten years. I guess someone, somewhere will be making bespoke framesets, but at a very high price point.

All my bikes for 50 years have been and will remain steel. There were 2 exceptions. I bought an aluminium Cannondale and sold within a month. Plus a very early 1994 Giant Cadex-1 week!
Steel will in my opinion never be bettered for a proper ride. All those on Carbon have usually not ridden steel. There are of course exceptions. Carbon is not ecologically friendly. Carbon bikes will deteriorate and fall to bits in around 6-10 years from my investigation into materials used for bike building.
So,,steel is and will always be best, and that is not just my opinion!

Well my 2008 Cannondale carbon bike hasn't been told to fall apart!!!

And it's probably more likely that the newer ones with lighter layups are more likely too tbh.

Steel is hardly an energy light method if production either.

I have both steel and carbon and like the way both ride tbh.

Cheers James

[peetee]

I’m not sure the merits of steel or carbon are anything to do with the demise of Bob Jackson. New tech drives sales of many commodities and bikes are no different. For a lot of purchasers life-expectancy beyond a few years is irrelevant. Their wants and cares will have moved on to the ‘new-best-thing’ by then.
I wonder how much the current political climate has hastened Jackson’s demise. Pandemic aside, trade with Europe has been affected already by Brexit and there must be some uncertainty over the structure and cost of trade elsewhere too. Jackson along with Mercian and Jack Taylor have a lot of admirers in the states and new sales there must have been a significant consideration.

[colin54]

I read on the Retrogrouch site that the staff were going to build themselves the last frames to be built there, I thought that was a great idea. I hope they managed to do that after all the uncertainty of whether they were staying open or not. Wishing them a happy retirement anyway.
http://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com/202 ... osing.html
Here's a picture of mine being built for it's original owner in 1994.
Framebuilder Danny Foster holding it, I believe.
This was at the Dewsbury Rd site ,the building's still there.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.78846 ... 8192?hl=en
Here's a link to a picture of the original Hyde Park Road site,
I lived about half a mile away on the same road when I lived in Leeds.
http://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?reso ... SPLAY=FULL

[thirdcrank]

Colin54's post has reminded me of this

One way or another, we're heading for the end of an era.

Once upon a time, JRJ, Woodrupp's and Walt Ormsby's were all in an area of Leeds 4 not much bigger than a football pitch. Only Woodrupp's is still going, having moved a few hundred yards to Kirkstall Road.

I've had to check Classic Lightweights to be sure of my facts. Although I'm a Leeds Loiner dating from 1944, I only learned to ride a bike in 1958. The Leodis image linked by Colin54 of the shop at 80 Hyde Park Road was the original JRJ pre-war shop. At some point in the early 1960's, the business was at 77-79 HPR, which is where I remember it from. Walt Ormsby's was lower down at 27 HPR. There's been a lot of clearance and redevelopment round there but 27 HPR is still there although it's now a restaurant/takeway. As Classic Lightweights notes, that shop is almost on the corner of Burley Lodge Road, where the original Woodrup's premises was at 111. Again, that's still there, but, like several other former shops around there has had the shop window bricked up and converted to housing.

Jackson's eventually moved to 83 Harehills Road, where I bought my only Jackson frame in 1980. That's now Harehills Furniture Depot, having been all sorts since Jackssn's moved to the premises at the bottom of Dewsbury Road pictured by Colin54 and then on to Bramley, which has just closed.

It's reported above that the Jackson's equipment is going to Woodrup's which is still on Kirkstall Road. It's going back to its roots.

[slowster]

It's reported above that the Jackson's equipment is going to Woodrup's which is still on Kirkstall Road. It's going back to its roots.

If Woodrup's have sufficient space for the equipment in their existing premises, that would be a much better business model: why burden themselves with the commitment and extra financial cost of leasing Bob Jackson's existing premises if they don't need them?

AIUI Kevin Sayles makes Woodrup's custom frames and originally learned his craft at Bob Jackson. I guess that some of Bob Jackson's former workers want to retire completely, but others might not and/or might like only to semi-retire and still do some framebuilding, so this outcome might suit everybody better. I imagine the output might be lower, but still be more profitable/profit per frame without the overhead of the existing lease.

It will be interesting to see whether they stick to Bob Jackson's traditional range of standard types and sizes of frames, or whether they take it a bit more upmarket and closer to full custom. Custom geometry and choosing tube thicknesses to suit individual riders was probably not practical for Bob Jackson in the way that it would be for Woodrup with their retail premises where customers can come to be measured and discuss the frame specification.

It would be fantastic if they could create something akin to Raleigh's SBDU.

[thirdcrank]

I never visited the Dewsbury Road site so I don't know the set-up there, but all the other Jackson's places over the years had a normal bike shop as well as the frame building. When they moved to Bramley, they originally had a bike shop downstairs and that was where you sorted out your frame building requirements. AFAIK, they reached a point where the retail shop was a waste of space.