Bob Jackson's is shutting up - IT IS NOW (sob) !!

[alexnharvey]

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... 6&start=40

I found out yesterday, but I didn’t want to post anything till I’d actually spoken to Donald. Bob Jackson’s is closing.

I popped by this morning to collect a frame I’d dropped off before Christmas for a respray & Donald confirmed that at the very last minute even with all the financials in place, the actual guy who was supposed to have taken over running the business should have started this week. He didn’t, it’s over.

A sad day for Yorkshire bike building.

I wonder what Tony Woodrup has in mind for the brand now?

[KTHSullivan]

Real shame, I was just contemplating getting my BJ "Golden Jubilee" back to them for a respray.

[pwa]

Sadly, the market for high end steel frames is a lot smaller than it used to be. When I see a cyclist coming my way on what might be an interesting bike I watch as it passes, and I have noticed that nice steel frames are becoming a rarity. (I saw a nice Roberts yesterday.) This is very much a sector in decline and I wonder how little will be left in ten years. I guess someone, somewhere will be making bespoke framesets, but at a very high price point.

[Bonefishblues]

Sadly, the market for high end steel frames is a lot smaller than it used to be. When I see a cyclist coming my way on what might be an interesting bike I watch as it passes, and I have noticed that nice steel frames are becoming a rarity. (I saw a nice Roberts yesterday.) This is very much a sector in decline and I wonder how little will be left in ten years. I guess someone, somewhere will be making bespoke framesets, but at a very high price point.

I wonder if that first statement is correct, or whether it's simply that the market has changed - there are now plenty of (super)high-end steel framemakers, and all charging significantly more than BJ used to.

[pwa]

Sadly, the market for high end steel frames is a lot smaller than it used to be. When I see a cyclist coming my way on what might be an interesting bike I watch as it passes, and I have noticed that nice steel frames are becoming a rarity. (I saw a nice Roberts yesterday.) This is very much a sector in decline and I wonder how little will be left in ten years. I guess someone, somewhere will be making bespoke framesets, but at a very high price point.

I wonder if that first statement is correct, or whether it's simply that the market has changed - there are now plenty of (super)high-end steel framemakers, and all charging significantly more than BJ used to.

I have noticed, over the last year or two, that I'm seeing fewer and fewer steel frames on nice bikes. They were already a bit niche but that niche still seems to be shrinking. It seems to have reached a point where, if you want bespoke, you are going to have to pay a lot. Affordable and bespoke are not going to happen at the same time anymore. We will still be able to get affordable off-the-peg steel from the Far East (Spa, Thorn, etc) and we will still be able to get very expensive bespoke steel, but nothing in between. Or that is how it looks to me.

[Bonefishblues]

Sadly, the market for high end steel frames is a lot smaller than it used to be. When I see a cyclist coming my way on what might be an interesting bike I watch as it passes, and I have noticed that nice steel frames are becoming a rarity. (I saw a nice Roberts yesterday.) This is very much a sector in decline and I wonder how little will be left in ten years. I guess someone, somewhere will be making bespoke framesets, but at a very high price point.

I wonder if that first statement is correct, or whether it's simply that the market has changed - there are now plenty of (super)high-end steel framemakers, and all charging significantly more than BJ used to.

I have noticed, over the last year or two, that I'm seeing fewer and fewer steel frames on nice bikes. They were already a bit niche but that niche still seems to be shrinking. It seems to have reached a point where, if you want bespoke, you are going to have to pay a lot. Affordable and bespoke are not going to happen at the same time anymore. We will still be able to get affordable off-the-peg steel from the Far East (Spa, Thorn, etc) and we will still be able to get very expensive bespoke steel, but nothing in between. Or that is how it looks to me.

I agree.

[peetee]

When I see a cyclist coming my way on what might be an interesting bike I watch as it passes, and I have noticed that nice steel frames are becoming a rarity.

Perhaps there are enthusiasts out there keeping them under lock and key, owning many frames and only able to ride one at a time....



....Guilty as charged, my lord!

[fastpedaller]

Is it just a case of those with the money are buying what they perceive as the 'latest' probably carbon?

[Bonefishblues]

Is it just a case of those with the money are buying what they perceive as the 'latest' probably carbon?

No, I think that those with the real money are increasingly buying bespoke steel. Carbon's increasingly commoditised these days IMHO.

[PH]

In CJ's review about 15 years ago of one of the Hewitt tourers, he said something along the lines of it giving custom builders a run for their money. That's stuck in my mind because I was at the time eyeing up custom builders and went for a Hewitt instead. I think that's largely the way the it's gone. There's so much decent off the peg stuff available, in all materials, that it has to be something special, or perceived as such, to warrant not buying OTP, and people looking for something special will pay special prices.
Two other factors, which are probably related, are peoples disposable income and their expectation about how long they'll keep a bike. I've had one bike for fifteen years (The aforementioned Hewitt) but the average time I keep one is around six. That's not always as planned, it's just something I might take into consideration before buying something.
I'm a little puzzled by my own reaction the the closing, I'm sad that's happened, yet I've never considered buying one or ever have been likely to do so.

[Jamesh]

In CJ's review about 15 years ago of one of the Hewitt tourers, he said something along the lines of it giving custom builders a run for their money. That's stuck in my mind because I was at the time eyeing up custom builders and went for a Hewitt instead. I think that's largely the way the it's gone. There's so much decent off the peg stuff available, in all materials, that it has to be something special, or perceived as such, to warrant not buying OTP, and people looking for something special will pay special prices.
Two other factors, which are probably related, are peoples disposable income and their expectation about how long they'll keep a bike. I've had one bike for fifteen years (The aforementioned Hewitt) but the average time I keep one is around six. That's not always as planned, it's just something I might take into consideration before buying something.
I'm a little puzzled by my own reaction the the closing, I'm sad that's happened, yet I've never considered buying one or ever have been likely to do so.

Hewitt, condor, Enigma all come to mind before BJ not to mention the neo bespoke bike builders.

Cheers James

Ps not forgetting genesis!!!

[alexnharvey]

In CJ's review about 15 years ago of one of the Hewitt tourers, he said something along the lines of it giving custom builders a run for their money. That's stuck in my mind because I was at the time eyeing up custom builders and went for a Hewitt instead. I think that's largely the way the it's gone. There's so much decent off the peg stuff available, in all materials, that it has to be something special, or perceived as such, to warrant not buying OTP, and people looking for something special will pay special prices.
Two other factors, which are probably related, are peoples disposable income and their expectation about how long they'll keep a bike. I've had one bike for fifteen years (The aforementioned Hewitt) but the average time I keep one is around six. That's not always as planned, it's just something I might take into consideration before buying something.
I'm a little puzzled by my own reaction the the closing, I'm sad that's happened, yet I've never considered buying one or ever have been likely to do so.

Hewitt, condor, Enigma all come to mind before BJ not to mention the neo bespoke bike builders.

Cheers James

Ps not forgetting genesis!!!

Most of the neo-bespokes seem to charge double to three times what BJ were asking and often more than a Mercian would cost despite some appearing to only having a relatively small portfolio of completed work.

I anticipated seeing BJ increase prices at least 50% in the ill-fated reboot.

[slowster]

Bob Jackson was the last manufacturer making what was close to off the peg frames of that type, in particular with 1" threaded steerers for quill stems.

If you think that 1 1/8" threadless steerers and stems are better in every way (and possibly also that discs are similarly better in every way than rim brakes), then you are much less likely to mourn the loss of Bob Jackson.

Similarly if your preferences are strongly influenced by a bike's suitability for touring with fully loaded panniers, I suspect that you would probably prefer the touring frames from Surly, Spa and Thorn to a Bob Jackson. I also suspect heavy/big riders would be likely to prefer those frames, even for unladen use.

If, however, your experience is that a well built steel frame using an appropriate range of narrow tubes, rim brakes and a quill stem in a 1" threaded steerer gives a ride that hits a sweet spot of stiffness and comfort, then Bob Jackson's closure is a major loss.

The problem with custom is that unless the framebuilder is very experienced in building that type of frame, you are taking more of a risk when it comes to them getting the design and choice of tubing etc. right. If I were offered the choice for the same price of a standard Bob Jackson frame in 631 tubing in my size or a custom 953/853 frame from one of the new generation of custom framebuilders, I would take the Bob Jackson, because it is a tried and tested design.

[leftpoole]

Sadly, the market for high end steel frames is a lot smaller than it used to be. When I see a cyclist coming my way on what might be an interesting bike I watch as it passes, and I have noticed that nice steel frames are becoming a rarity. (I saw a nice Roberts yesterday.) This is very much a sector in decline and I wonder how little will be left in ten years. I guess someone, somewhere will be making bespoke framesets, but at a very high price point.

All my bikes for 50 years have been and will remain steel. There were 2 exceptions. I bought an aluminium Cannondale and sold within a month. Plus a very early 1994 Giant Cadex-1 week!
Steel will in my opinion never be bettered for a proper ride. All those on Carbon have usually not ridden steel. There are of course exceptions. Carbon is not ecologically friendly. Carbon bikes will deteriorate and fall to bits in around 6-10 years from my investigation into materials used for bike building.
So,,steel is and will always be best, and that is not just my opinion!

[Bonefishblues]

Sadly, the market for high end steel frames is a lot smaller than it used to be. When I see a cyclist coming my way on what might be an interesting bike I watch as it passes, and I have noticed that nice steel frames are becoming a rarity. (I saw a nice Roberts yesterday.) This is very much a sector in decline and I wonder how little will be left in ten years. I guess someone, somewhere will be making bespoke framesets, but at a very high price point.

All my bikes for 50 years have been and will remain steel. There were 2 exceptions. I bought an aluminium Cannondale and sold within a month. Plus a very early 1994 Giant Cadex-1 week!
Steel will in my opinion never be bettered for a proper ride. All those on Carbon have usually not ridden steel. There are of course exceptions. Carbon is not ecologically friendly. Carbon bikes will deteriorate and fall to bits in around 6-10 years from my investigation into materials used for bike building.
So,,steel is and will always be best, and that is not just my opinion!

People are building planes from carbon composites though, and I'm sure they're expecting to get a bit longer service before, to paraphrase, the bloody wings fall off