Airnimal & Touring

[Solar Panel Phil]

Hi there, anybody out there with experience of touring on Chameleons or Joeys?

regards

Solar Panel Phil

[bikepacker]

Yes lots. What is it you want to know?

[georgew]

Yes lots. What is it you want to know?

I'd be happy with some info on this topic also. While I'm an experienced cycle/camper, it seems that as far as these bikes are concerned there's not much info around. I'm particularly interested as I hope to do some light touring in France with my Chameleon shortly.
I'm think that Si might possibly be able to contribute here as he has the same model.

[Si]

I'm think that Si might possibly be able to contribute here as he has the same model.

My experiences with Chameleons could have been better.

The good points: it does pack down reasonably small, just a bit bigger than a Birdy in fact, but not as fast to fold.
You can put proper racks on it, four point at the rear, low rider at the front with the Alu touring fork. I had no heel-pannier trouble with the rear.
The back end is very comfortable, the suspension soaks up road buz well.
The bike rides well unloaded or semi-loaded but I never tried it with full camping kit.
The 28mm tyres were comfortable and quick. (I found the narrower kenda(?) tyres horrible but you wouldn't want them for touring anyway).
The aftersales service from Airnimal was prompt ad friendly.


The bad points:
The Alu fork was a little harsh (double bar tape and a wider tyre would probably have helped).
The cable runs were a little wandering which didn't keep the indexing as good as it might have been (but note mine came with those woefull early 9spd 501 STI levers).
Some have complained about not having a bottle mount to hand but I just clamped one to the back of the stem and it was fine.
Some havecomplained that the suspension eats up power. I didn'tnotice this - I had the harder elastometer (wise if you are going to carry loads) and found that the added comfort actually made e go faster on long rides.

...the above I could live with, but it was the fact that the frame kept parting company with itself that made me give up inthe end:

The first two breakages were the pivot on the seat mast coming away - lack of weld penetration. This problem was fixed when they sent me a new design of seat mast (with brackets on the sides). Never had any trouble with this eat mast.

the final breakage was when the main frame broke in two with no warning while I was happily riding along. Someone has su=ggested it was because I fitted a new style seat mast to the old style frame but Airnimal were the ones that told me to do this so they must have thought that it was OK. I did sent the remains of the frame back to Airnimal for inspection but they didn't offer any opinion on why it broke. they just sent me a new frame which I sold immediatly.

I've hear stories of such breakages from a fair few owners of th earlier Chameleons and also complains about the original rims wearing out really quickly.

So for me the bottom line is: if they have sorted out the reliability issues of the earlier frames then it's a great bike, if not then I wouldn't want to go touring on one.

Unfortunatly, after three breakages in four years I might have become a little prejudiced agin them but I hope that I've given a fair account here.

[jawaka]

i am told taht with the airnimal bag you have to remove the rack if fitted as it doesn't fit in. the bag also seemed rather bulky. spa cycles told me the real purpose is to be a bike you can stick conveniently in the car boot to go away or else a flat dweller who had no room for a normal bike and that people expect too much of them. having read about breakages here i'd be even more uneasy about heavy touring. i've got a carradice sqr saddle bag about15 litres and i'm sure this is ok and i had a relative make me a housse(the site with info on making one was called "bike hippies") it takes me about 8/9 minutes to assemble and disassemble it and put it all in the bag. even with the rack it comes in at just a metre which is fine for uk and french rail. having had a short tour in may i'm taking it to the alps as i think it rides really well and is satisfyingly fast
you can specify components and i had touring gears put on the chamelaeon as i wanted dropped bars and i preferred steel forks for no real rational, defensible raeson: i just feel insecure with the idea of carbon fibre particularly if it damaged
i'm a bit concerned about these breakages: for the money they shouldn't be producing bikes with dodgy welds should they

[Solar Panel Phil]

Thanks for feedback, especially Si. The sort of info I'm looking for is as follows:-

1. Whether the Chameleon/Joey are worth "the extra", given that frequent folding is not envisaged.
2. With day touring in mind, is the Chameleon worth the extra over the Joey, and, if so, why (I know there are various versions, I mean the general/touring versions of both).
3. With kids hopefully fledged in a while, I was thinking about a small car to take to locations with tent and bikes, and use the Airnimal to do day rides around, before moving to the next "hub" location. No need as such for lots of panniers etc under this scenario.
4. Alternatively, with a trailer in mind and forgetting the car, can either model cope with trailers (Bob or other) satisfactorily, and/or panniers. Sounds like this may stretch the envelope a bit too far.
5. Another scenario; take bikes/tent etc on Eurostar etc and do rides around camping sites near railway stations.
6. Better to consider Airnimals under these scenarios, or opt for more traditional 26"/700c tourers with S&S couplings etc?

So many questions . Both my wife and I are not in the first flush of youth, so racing/fast audaxing etc not really involved here. Any advice/recommendations appreciated.

regards

Philip

[bikepacker]

Having never used a Chameleon I cannot say if it is worth the extra. What I can say is that the Joeys me an my wife used on a recent tour performed excellently and we could not have asked more of a folding bike.

If you are going on Eurostar I think you will need the quick folding and smaller pack size of the Joey. Getting the bike into a bag and on the train did not present a problem. But bikes have to be in bags or you pay £20 per trip extra. Regarding the carriers, yes they have to be removed but I fitted them with wing nuts so they are quickly removed.

For example we got off the train in Avignon at 10.10pm, I assembled the two bikes on the platform and we rode to a prebooked hotel about 1K from the station, arriving there at 10.43 pm. Like wise it takes about 10 minutes to take off the racks fold each bike and put in the bag.

The bags weigh 0.6kilo so they were easily carried on the bikes but they could be left at a campsite or left luggage. We carried them.

We are for valid reasons unable to use the Joeys again and have put them up for sale on this forum. http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=14220

[Si]

1. Whether the Chameleon/Joey are worth "the extra", given that frequent folding is not envisaged.

so racing/fast audaxing etc not really involved here

the main selling point of the Chameleon as I see it is that it's a performance folder. As you say that you are not really interested in going fast then perhaps you might be better off with something a little cheaper that folds a little better but doesn't go as fast?

[georgew]

I own a Chameleon and have ridden and worked on both The Joey and the Chameleon.
While I intend to use the Chameleon for light touring I regard the Joey as being the more practical of the two for this purpose. That said, the Chameleon when used with no rack and employing an SQR with a Long-flap Camper saddlebag it is a light, fast tourer. The Chameleon does give a ride very similar to a good road bike in that it is light, very responsive and has good acceleration.
In my opinion the Joey, given that it uses wider tyres is probably more suited for touring, particularly if more luggage is required.
Having bought my Chameleon equipped with 105 STIs and a triple chain-set, I found that it was extremely difficult to operate the FD with this set-up. The torturous cable route dictated by the configuration of the frame and the need for the full cable outer, meant that any change to the large ring was very difficult and required a great deal of force. As a result the cable was in constant need of adjustment and the amount of force required tended to cause injury to my wrist. Eventually I was forced to use a Bar-end lever for the FD instead of the STI. I've since had to do the same mod to my friend's Chameleon who had the identical experience, and she had the idea from another owner with the same problem. Equipped with the bar-end the bikes perform beautifully.

[ncutler]

Thanks for this, Georgew (hopefully not George w Bush...). I'm currently building up a Chameleon, and luckily, since I'm using bullhorn type bars, I'd planed all along to use bar end shifters. Your post makes me very relieved I've gone this way.

Richard

[ Post moved from 'For Sale & Wanted' ]

[Si]

Having bought my Chameleon equipped with 105 STIs and a triple chain-set, I found that it was extremely difficult to operate the FD with this set-up. The torturous cable route dictated by the configuration of the frame and the need for the full cable outer, meant that any change to the large ring was very difficult and required a great deal of force. As a result the cable was in constant need of adjustment and the amount of force required tended to cause injury to my wrist

Ah, sounds familior - I tended yo blame the shifter but as you've had the same trouble twice over! I solved the problem by binning the gears and running it as a single speed in the end. I have to admit that as an SS the chameleon rocks.

[johnmac]

I'm looking at using wing nuts to fix the rear rack on my Chameleon. Could anyone post a photo of how this is done, please? I'm struggling with limited space between the fixings on the seat stays. I'm also wondering if it's possible to cut down a wheel quick release for this purpose?

[bikepacker]

I can tell you what I did on the Joey with a Sram Dual Drive. I put the set pin through from the inside of the fork at the drop out, having sufficient thread to put the wing nut and spring washer on the outside. Carruers have enough spring to get them on the thread.

[Cunobelin]

My experience is similar.... My last tour was the "Lochs and Glens" Which consisted of about 12 miles to LochWinnoch where the frame failed;



I really like this bike though, and it is used for day rides, and fast commuting, but I am afraid I would not tour on mine again. I must also say that service form Airnimal and Avon Valley wwas impeccable, and replacement has been prompt including a complete rebuild on both occasions.

[georgew]

^^^^^ Can I ask how old your frame was when it failed Conobelin? It does worry me a bit given that I have a Chameleon and intend to us it for light touring.