gbnz wrote:[XAP]Bob wrote:gbnz wrote:It's absurd that I should be prevented from using the gym, the pool, the library, just to allow some elderly person in their 50's or above survive for a bit longer. Why can't they simply be given the choice? Isolate or die? (Nb. Obviously those having to rely on the NHS may not have the choice! No other healthcare provider in Europe have come close to their figures yet)
No it's not absurd at all.
Some of us clinically extremely vulnerable people aren't over 50, and we are both economically productive and have families.
Your laissez faire attitude is directly responsible for thousands of deaths.
To suggest that those over 50 have no value is, frankly, reminiscent of a certain moustached gentleman by the name of Adolf.
Of course it's absurd. If you're clinically vulnerable protect yourself via isolation. It's hardly my responsibility if you decide to go out and catch a disease. Obviously if people stand to close to me, I ensure they move (Nb. That woman standing 10" away from me to unload her shoping basket on Friday - but she was informed of the risk and kept a good few metres away from me after that).
How far do you think I should isolate, should I be allowed to talk to my kids or wife for instance?
Can I use the kitchen in my own house?
Should I have to leave everything outside for three days before I open my shopping?
I cannot protect myself - I rely on society to do what it can to reduce the risk to everyone, which includes reducing the risk to me.
In much the same way that cyclists can't protect themselves - they rely on other people moderating their behaviour in a way which is beneficial for society even though it is marginally detrimental to them.
End of the day it's your choice, to compare it with Adolf who took that choice away from fit & healthy people, is a bit absurd
The comparison with Hitler was a comment on your stated attitude that no-one over 50 has any value.
Going back to the "protect yourself by isolation" idea.
We pulled the kids out of school before the lockdown actually started, and I had only been out once in the week preceding that.
Our shopping was delivered to the garage, and we washed and disinfected everything that had to go into a fridge or freezer, and anything that could survive in the garage for was left there for at least three days, usually more.
All four of us isolated completely as a family - this meant that I didn't need to isolate from my wife and kids, since they weren't leaving the house either (at all, for anything).
7 weeks into that level of isolation (no-one entered or left the house at all, all incoming packages and letters were disinfected thoroughly and hands washed after handling them) we think I managed to catch covid. Since tests weren't available unless you were an inpatient, and if I didn't have it then that would have been the worst place to be... I can't say conclusively, but the Dr is pretty confident it was, and it certainly matches everything we know about it now.
My wife spent the nights literally counting my breaths with a watch in her hand - she had very strict guidelines from the GP as to what counted as "phone an ambulance" territory, and I was within one or two breaths a minute of that for much of several days.
Between mid February and September I left my house for three scheduled, shielded, blood tests and I went from my house to the car, to my parents house (they had filled their car completely, then isolated for three weeks) in order that my kids could go the their last few days of school - for one of them the last few days of primary school. That was the total count of excursions from our house - I was the *only* person who left the house, and I only did so for very specific, and very shielded purposes.
I used the fuelService app to have the car filled with fuel (wheelchair user, so filling the car is a pain at the best of times) meaning I didn't have any contact with the single person who did that for me (passed a card out of a cracked open back window, took it back into a wipe).
I would struggle to suggest anything that I/we could have done differently to isolate further than we did, so "protect yourself by isolation" just doesn't cut it. What is needed is *both* for me to isolate, *and* for you, and every other selfish prat in the country, to do their part as well.
