A salutary tale......caveat emptor

[mercalia]

There's a set of guidelines in a "sticky" at the top of the classified ads sections of the forum including this

Caveat Emptor.

Not much point in more of the same

Always worth repeating, highlighting, people get too relaxed

there should be a sign about the other side of the coin "seller beware" Caveat venditor

[tim-b]

Hi
I've sold a few bits on here, £10s rather than £100s and I prefer BACS and PP Friends and Family
I was wary when a payment from one buyer was put on hold by PP (not PP F&F) for some reason that neither I nor the buyer understood
I also remember a post some years ago where the quality of a hub gear internal was called into question. The seller was named and the thread disappeared soon afterwards so maybe it's better to keep it anonymous and visible as a reminder to all
Regards
tim-b

[Graham]

That is a bit tantalising, the unfair seller is among us.

Not so. The seller's account has been deactivated.. . . . . .
Which doesn't stop them from returning with a new account/username.

We are doing what we can to help - behind the scenes.

But remember, remember, remember - you can never be sure who you are talking to on the internet.
If money and/or emotional well-being are at stake . . . be very, very careful !!!

Long established members of this forum are probably OK, but even then things can go a bit wonky.

[PH]

PayPal provides guarantees in the event that items are not as described...

I'm pretty sure they won't guarantee that two individuals agree on the definition of subjective terms about an item's condition. I don't see it as the role of the forum's moderation team either. The idea that something is above average condition could mean different things to different people, there's nothing in your post that leads me to think they were selling in bad faith.

[rjb]

Those guidelines could do with updating. They were posted in 2007. They advise one not to give their bank details to anyone. If you want to do a bank transfer then this is what one has to do and is pretty safe nowadays with banks advising this is probably the safest way to transfer money.

[djnotts]

I seem to recall that long ago to buy and sell via the Classifieds one had to be a CTC as was member. Probably became too resource intensive?
Why not a Feedback thread? I use retrobike a lot and Feefback there an excellent system. I have gold trader status!

[Graham]

Those guidelines could do with updating. They were posted in 2007. They advise one not to give their bank details to anyone. If you want to do a bank transfer then this is what one has to do and is pretty safe nowadays with banks advising this is probably the safest way to transfer money.

I believe that the BIG 6 Banks have now implemented the Account Name Verification for their Faster Payment transfers.

I have current accounts with other banks that do not yet have that additional check.

The Small Ads guidelines must rest "maturing" until all/most have the check. I prefer the guidelines to tend towards paranoia !
They ARE out to get us !

[Graham]

I seem to recall that long ago to buy and sell via the Classifieds one had to be a CTC as was member. Probably became too resource intensive?
Why not a Feedback thread? I use retrobike a lot and Feefback there an excellent system. I have gold trader status!

We have never had a CTC members only restriction ( because we have no way to implement it. )

I fear that a feedback system could be easily subverted.. . ..

[djnotts]

I seem to recall that long ago to buy and sell via the Classifieds one had to be a CTC as was member. Probably became too resource intensive?
Why not a Feedback thread? I use retrobike a lot and Feefback there an excellent system. I have gold trader status!

We have never had a CTC members only restriction ( because we have no way to implement it. )

I fear that a feedback system could be easily subverted.. . ..

OK, then access to the Classifieds was Forum members only. And after many years and maybe 100 trades on retrobke I simply don't buy the subverted claim.

[neilob]

PayPal provides guarantees in the event that items are not as described...

I'm pretty sure they won't guarantee that two individuals agree on the definition of subjective terms about an item's condition. I don't see it as the role of the forum's moderation team either. The idea that something is above average condition could mean different things to different people, there's nothing in your post that leads me to think they were selling in bad faith.

If you were to read the description and then see the item you would probably be persuaded so no lectures please. I have opened the debate in good faith to protect everyone. It’s probably too late for me.

[mattsccm]

I had a dire experience with PP. They wanted me to send an obviously fake item back to China for inspection and refund. I refused and involved the credit card company attached to my PP account. Instant refund! PP can be good even if you have to go this far.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

I had a dire experience with PP. They wanted me to send an obviously fake item back to China for inspection and refund. I refused and involved the credit card company attached to my PP account. Instant refund! PP can be good even if you have to go this far.

Was that credit card or PP refund?
I normally find that pictures of actual item and a copy of the advert sale and any pictures on that page suffice.
PP look closely at all messages etc to and from seller and customer.
I would refuse to return to china too.
I had such a claim by seller that they needed item back and they refused to send a postage label to me.
It is possible that you fall into a black hole like I did when you can't get satisfaction, as PP and or ebay won't let you communicate as case expired etc / you get close to the cut off time for resolution.
Any way the sellers comment of "if you want it heavier we will send you one with a rock in it" meant ebay-PP ruled that I keep item and don't need to send back.

Yes there will always be problems dealing with unknown sellers.
One was I received a misdescribed item from ebay............which I did accept as we needed it quick and it would still do what we wanted, but I am now very choosy on what I will accept.
All in all my experiences on here buying and selling (C-UK) have been good but they have been few for sure, one thing is that the prices on here seem very good definitely a bargain.

I trust PP much more than insurance companies and banks are a joke.

[markjohnobrien]

Maybe a timely warning for forum users that is even more important during these strange times. This is a short story of a recent transaction during which I bought an item from another forum member. I am not going to name names or describe the item so that it can be identified but I want to highlight the key issues we should consider to protect ourselves. I have been a happy member of the CTC/Cycling UK forum for many years using it to buy and sell many items. Many members have done business with me, all I hope with good experience of a fair and honest deal. So a couple of weeks ago I spotted an item for sale and eventually made an offer which was accepted. As usual, photos were provided along with a glowing description using terminology which implied way above average condition. I paid by bank transfer and after a short delay (and some confusion) the item arrived by courier. Although in reasonable condition, it certainly didn’t match the glowing description provided and it was disappointing. I contacted the seller to express my concerns and request a review and refund on the basis of not matching the description but a door was slammed in my face on the basis that ‘you got a bargain!’. Then he refused to engage in any further debate and doesn’t answer my private messages. Because form members can hide behind anonymity and user names, there is nowhere to go! The only tangible thing I have is the seller’s bank account details which I am asking my bank to intervene and arbitrate. My warning to you all is please use PayPal when buying items, and don’t attempt to save a couple of quid by asking for friends and family. PayPal provides guarantees in the event that items are not as described whereas, of course, bank accounts usually don’t.

Sorry to hear you’ve had a bad experience with a seller as you are an honourable person (as have everyone I’ve bought and sold from on the forum over the years).

I once sold a never used Carradice on here and advertised it “as new”. The buyer was amazed that it really was new, had never been used, and I wasn’t exaggerating. It’s a shame the unnamed person you dealt with, wasn’t as honest.

[PH]

It’s a shame the unnamed person you dealt with, wasn’t as honest.

I'm still waiting to see if we get anything to demonstrate that the seller wasn't honest.
I'm a bit concerned that the mods have allowed this one sided condemnation of a member to continue.

[willcee]

Neil . sorry to hear of your issue, personally I have been taken to task by forum users privately and publically over my take on some recent newbie adverts.. Perhaps I have a view on some of these ads with messy sometimes out of focus shots with new and low contri numbers with claims that to my experienced eye immediately sets off alarms, and I thought it was well known that a respected experienced forum that where we are regulars , to those ''operators'' they know or are fairly sure that on here there will be guys who can and do spend large sums on their hobby without putting their house finances in jeopardy!!!...as a wise old dealer guy told me many years back they lie/lay in their bed and plan how they will stroke you, only he added some more colourful adjectives ending in ING.. I think you should out the culprit... after all it may save someone else and we need as of this minute need to mark their respective cards..MODS.. please.. will