Boris's Brain is missing

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Cugel
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Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by Cugel »

Psamathe wrote: 26 Jun 2022, 9:54pm
Mick F wrote: 26 Jun 2022, 9:34pm R2, absolutely correct.

I never wanted to be in the EU in the first place, and I voted to leave given that chance. I was never asked if we should have even joined!
Trouble is, the leave/remain vote was too close for comfort.

It should have been annulled perhaps, and another vote taken later after we had all inwardly digested the result.
Maybe General Elections when they are split closely, should be re-voted upon later.
It would seem reasonable that a good margin be required for a referendums of major significance e.g. 60% to 40%. Maybe the laws for such referendums should state that if such a margin is not achieved one way or the other and maybe with a minimum turnout %age of those eligible a repeats referendum will be held e.g. 4 years later. Would apply to things like EU membership, Scottish Independence. As you say, just crawling over the line is not enough when the outcome has such major impacts on everybody.

Ian
Referendums! Cuh!!

Perhaps the rule should be: no newspaps, TV or internet for one year beforehand, to give time for we various flesh robots to lose our various mass media programs in favour of our actual experience of our everyday lives, before we go putting crosses here and there on dangerous pieces of paper?

For example, how could one vote based on a fear of immigrants if one never came across one other than the generally nice ones that live and work 60 miles away where Auntie Flossy lives, picking the strawberries or nursing Aunty Flossie? As to the sovereignty thing - well, perhaps we'd come to realise that none of us apart from a certain teeny Establishment actually have any or ever will have.

Cugel
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Stevek76
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Joined: 28 Jul 2015, 11:23am

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by Stevek76 »

Having a supermajority requirement was brought up in parliament during the debate on the bill setting up the referendum but was dismissed on the basis of the referendum being advisory vote to judge opinion. The decision to treat it as a simple majority was entirely an executive/media one.

Whilst the EU was never voted on, the EEC was and at 66% quite a solid margin. The official election leaflets at the time (scans are still around on the internet) were really quite clear about the political nature of it, that's not something new that came with the EU.


That said, I remain unconvinced that referendums are a good idea at all for anything really, they usually end up turning very complicated topics into divisive, simplistic bun fights. I don't believe there should be any referendum on a change to a more proportional voting system beyond perhaps a choice about which one (eg MMS vs STV). No other voting reform in this country needed a referendum, they're a rather modern invention.
The contents of this post, unless otherwise stated, are opinions of the author and may actually be complete codswallop
thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by thirdcrank »

Interesting to hear how people vote when they are in a mess. Something to do with being in the same boat, perhaps.
Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by Psamathe »

Maybe I've become a cynic but headline
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/jun/27/boris-johnson-tories-g7-government-latest-updates wrote:Boris Johnson claims he is not worried about Tory MPs plotting against him because leadership issue ‘settled’
I'm no gambler but 110% sure Johnson (and Carrie) is (are) spending significant effort plotting against those plotting against him. Plenty of anonymoys discrediting Press Briefings being prepared against those who might express their views and those who might stand against him.

Ian
Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by Psamathe »

A good line from a Guardian commentary article (I quoted another bit from same article in another thread but this more relevant to tis thread):
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/27/laughter-and-forgetting-with-liz-truss-as-she-prepares-to-break-brexit-deal wrote:...but I’d put money on you not imagining a prime minister capable of interpreting two disastrous byelections as a mandate to carry on for two further terms. If only the Convict had lost a few more byelections, then he could have nominated himself as president for life.
Ian
francovendee
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Joined: 5 May 2009, 6:32am

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by francovendee »

If Boris does eventually go who amongst his cabinet would you say is capable and merit the job under another leader?
I confess I'm struggling to come up with any names.
pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by pwa »

francovendee wrote: 28 Jun 2022, 7:59am If Boris does eventually go who amongst his cabinet would you say is capable and merit the job under another leader?
I confess I'm struggling to come up with any names.
His Cabinet is stuffed with his mates, so the replacement could come from outside the Cabinet. Jeremy Hunt would be a significant improvement. But so would any of the office cleaners.
thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by thirdcrank »

The Daily Telegraph has been running a rumour that several tory MPs are in secret talks with Opposition whips about "crossing the floor." If this is correct and not just froth, expect to see this occur with maximum publicity just before PMQs, which I presume is tomorrow (Wednesday)
Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by Psamathe »

francovendee wrote: 28 Jun 2022, 7:59am If Boris does eventually go who amongst his cabinet would you say is capable and merit the job under another leader?
I confess I'm struggling to come up with any names.
Probably depends who his replacement is. Ms Truss seems hopeful and if she got the job then existing cabinet would all have good prospects.

Ian
Jdsk
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Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by Jdsk »

From the Chair of the Committee on Standards in Public Life:

"It is imperative that an Independent Adviser on Ministers’ Interests is appointed, even if temporarily, whilst proposals for the role are developed. As we said in our blog published on 16 June, at a time of heightened concern about standards in public life, any change to the oversight of ministerial behaviour must be stronger, not weaker, than we have now. This is essential to provide public confidence and to provide Ministers with advice on the administration of the Ministerial Code and on upholding the Nolan Principles."
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... llegations

Jonathan
Jdsk
Posts: 24639
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 26 Jun 2022, 8:45am
Stevek76 wrote: 24 Jun 2022, 8:18pm
Psamathe wrote: 24 Jun 2022, 3:24pm I was reading (and it makes sense to me) that the bigger worry for the Conservatives is (or should be) the Labour win as it's an indicator that they are losing/have lost the "Red Wall".
Actually it's potentially worse for them. As I've noted on here before, the 'red wall' term is often somewhat misunderstood. It was coined by a pollster who'd noted the outlying nature of those constituencies in that at the time (summer 2019) those seats were polling as rather more labour leaning than their underlying demographics would indicate. I.e. in an MRP model as is commonly used now, they were a noticeable cluster of residual errors in the statistical model.

The question here is whether this regain of a 'red wall' seat is just this otherwise unaccountable Northern 'anti Tory' sentiment reasserting itself. Or whether the ge2019 'correction' was permanent. If that's the case it could indicate large numbers of non 'red wall' conservative seats are also at risk.

Hopefully not as i don't think an outright labour majority would be in the long term interests of the country
Two interesting statements this week:

Labour plans do not involve joining the Single Market or Customs Union, let alone the EU:
https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/nat ... u---lammy/

Burnham is in favour of proportional representation, and:
"There is no getting away from the fact that Britain needs social reforms on a scale similar to those needed after the second world war. My starter for 10 would be: good housing as a human right in UK law and a major council house building programme to make it real; a higher basic minimum income for all and the end to insecure employment; social care on NHS terms and a substantial increase in mental health spending; and the re-nationalisation of rail and re-regulation of bus services."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... esentation
And Khan puts it plainly: rejoin the Single Market.
https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1541874091866656775

Jonathan
reohn2
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Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by reohn2 »

Jdsk wrote: 29 Jun 2022, 8:55am And Khan puts it plainly: rejoin the Single Market.
https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1541874091866656775

Jonathan
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Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by Jdsk »

Good Law Project:
"We are, today, issuing formal proceedings against the Met Police for their apparent continued failure to properly investigate Boris Johnson’s attendance at three lockdown gatherings, in November and December 2020 and January 2021, and their refusal to answer our legitimate questions about how they reached this decision."
https://goodlawproject.org/news/new-leg ... partygate/

Link for donations at the end of that page.

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 29 May 2022, 6:03pm
reohn2 wrote: 27 May 2022, 6:16pm
Jdsk wrote: 27 May 2022, 11:30am One isn't over yet.

Otherwise same concerns.
But there's no law or precedent that says he has to resign,others in high office have resigned when found out,Johnson is a different animal and his sickly party so far haven't had the spherics to oust him,when he should have gone long ago.
This excuse for humanity will hang on by a fingernail if he thinks there's a chance of survival.
There is NO honour in him or his party,he's a blatant and pathalogical liar,his party know it and trade on it for their own interests!
One.i
There may be several more shades of Gray, eg:
"The Sunday Times has seen messages from Carrie Johnson, appearing to show she had a gathering in No11 flat on evening of PM's 56th birthday":
https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/ ... 5096768513

"Minister disputes claims No 10 pushed Sue Gray to dilute Partygate report":
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ray-report

One.ii
The Brady bunch is growing:

"Thirty-four Tory MPs have now questioned Boris Johnson’s position":
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/th ... ar-AAXR5MQ

One.iii
The Parliamentary investigation has miles to go before it sleeps:

"i understands the Privileges Committee probe into whether the PM intentionally misled Parliament over allegedly lockdown-breaching Downing Street parties is not likely to report before September":
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/boris ... nt-1640340

And the Party Conference runs from 2 to 5 October...
Boris Johnson (Matter referred on 21 April 2022)
Inquiry

The Committee of Privileges has issued a call for evidence relating to the matter referred to it by the House in the Resolution of 21 April 2022.
The assertions referred to are specified as those relating to “the legality of activities in 10 Downing Street and the Cabinet Office under Covid regulations, including but not limited to” four specific assertions made by Mr Johnson at Prime Minister’s Questions.
The Committee is seeking witness information and evidence which would enable it to determine whether or not the Rt Hon Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip misled the House.

https://committees.parliament.uk/work/6 ... pril-2022/

One small step...

Jonathan
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Paulatic
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Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by Paulatic »

Now he’s got to find a new deputy chief whip. He can’t half pick em :lol:
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