Advice re handlebar, stem, gear shifter changes

[blaugrana]

Here are some of the details of the current set-up.

There are 3 chain wheels and 9 cogs at the rear.

It has a fairly short quill stem which is at its limit. The stem is 22 mm dia.

The handlebar and stem clamp dia. is 25.4 mm.

I've taken some photos too.

I do want to swap the drops for butterfly or some other bars. And I want to raise the height of where my hands rest quite a bit.

Any advice on what I would need to do would be much appreciated.

[Brucey]

if you are happy with the controls but just want the handlebars higher and closer, a new stem would do it...?

Not necessarily expensive, either;

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/stems/60-humpert-cattube-1-inch-quill-stem-254mm-clamp-blacksilver-60mm-height-250mm/

Lots of other (most much more expensive) options too.

cheers

[531colin]

Here are some of the details of the current set-up.

There are 3 chain wheels and 9 cogs at the rear.

It has a fairly short quill stem which is at its limit. The stem is 22 mm dia.

The handlebar and stem clamp dia. is 25.4 mm.

I've taken some photos too.

I do want to swap the drops for butterfly or some other bars. And I want to raise the height of where my hands rest quite a bit.

Any advice on what I would need to do would be much appreciated.

You can use the existing gear levers with the brackets I posted on page 1, and new cables, probably. This is much easier than getting suitable new levers with the right cable pull.
You need a quill stem for inch threaded headset (as you say 22.2mm diameter) reach and height to suit yourself (eg a high rise stem) with a handlebar clamp diameter to suit the bars.
(25.4mm is most unusual for drop bars, and I suspect this is wrong....but it doesn't matter as you are going to replace both bars and stem)
You will also need new (flat bar) brake levers, but these need to be suitable for sidepull/cantilever brakes; most flat bar levers now are made for Vee brakes; you could probably fit Vee brakes as well, if you wanted.

[blaugrana]

@531Colin
Thank you very much for all your help.
I shall have a think, pop round to my local charity bike recycling shop and see where I go from here.

Thanks again all.

[backnotes]

I've got a tatty Giant adjustable quill stem in my bits box. It's missing the rubber bung that stops rain sitting on the hex bolt for the quill. It was used for years on a similar vintage Dawes Galaxy to raise the bars. Pictures at the two ends of adjustment below. You obviously trade reach for height as it adjusts because it swings in an arc, but it might let you experiment with different positions without changing lots of parts. PM me if you want to give it a try.

[esasjl]

I bought a flat bar bike new (2008 Al frame Dawes to haul the supermarket shop) that I found difficult to get comfortable on. I tried butterfly bars on a stem raiser for a few years which was much better. Recently I've been getting some elbow pain (may be linked to excessive laptop use over the last year) and it was painful riding. I played about with a length of 1" dowel to see where my neutral position was for handlebar grip and found that down and back was the least stressed position. I couldn't find a bar that would give me this position other than an Ergotec AHS. This adjustable bar allows me to have the 18° back and down that, with a shorter stem height, is proving very comfortable. Bar ends are available that provide other positions similar to a butterfly bar. Sitting on a cushion at the laptop also helped.

With drop bars a tall stem (e.g., Nitto 225) will bring the tops level with the saddle and this can be very comfortable with the right bars. I wonder if it is worth looking at the whole bike fit, i.e., the relative positions of pedals, saddle and bars. I hope you find a good setup.

[9494arnold]

Jeff

My wife rides a Mixte Galaxy with Butterfly Bars. It was a gradual process, dictated by a lower back problem.
As has already been hinted at , Galaxies have been around for a few years in various guises.
Ours has Cantilever Brakes, so we were able to use some fairly utility brake levers. Later machines MIGHT have part of the spring return in the brake lever, so your new levers will have to replicate that. Longer Cables all round, and your gear change levers need to be compatible with your Gears at risk of stating obvious. We also have an adjustable Stem.

You can get a stump that fits in where a conventional stem would, you can then use Ahead Stem's (which do come in adjustable and various angles ) which will make life a bit easier for you , you won't be chasing obsolete bits .

Or an adjustable Stem as above (that's what we have) .
Having seen your photos you do have a much later machine , that I think has STI gearing and I suspect brakes that need the return spring in the lever. If you are going for new levers, brake and gear to suit 'flat / Butterfly' bars that will be an expensive fix , you may do better trading the Galaxy for a more modern machine , Galaxies have a good following so unless you have some emotional attachment life might just be easier with an exchange .
We persevered because it was a small Mixte and the good lady isn't that tall.

[blaugrana]

Thank you very much, @brucey, @backnotes, @esajl & @9494arnold for your offer and very helpful posts, suggestions and advice.

Much more to ponder on and look into.

I shouldn't really have an emotional attachment to the bike as I only bought it last summer. I have always fancied a Dawes Super Galaxy though, and this one has a hub dynamo, which I was also very taken by. Daft, I know...

Thanks again,

Jeff

[blaugrana]

[...]
Having seen your photos you do have a much later machine , that I think has STI gearing and I suspect brakes that need the return spring in the lever.
[...]
If you are going for new levers, brake and gear to suit 'flat / Butterfly' bars that will be an expensive fix.

Thank you, @9494arnold.
Gears: I'm thinking of going with the SJS thumb shifter adapters suggested by @531colin. Not cheap but will allow me to use my bar-end shifters and leave the gears alone.

Brakes: the possibility that the current brake levers may have a return spring that would need replicating in any 'flat' brake levers seems more worrying. These are not STI levers - does that mean I'm safe?!
I don't know how I can check if my levers are as you mention or how I can search for equivalent 'flat' levers.
The bike has supplementary 'flat' brake levers. Could these become my main brake levers?

Thanks again,

Jeff

[blaugrana]

I bought a flat bar bike new (2008 Al frame Dawes to haul the supermarket shop) that I found difficult to get comfortable on. I tried butterfly bars on a stem raiser for a few years which was much better. Recently I've been getting some elbow pain (may be linked to excessive laptop use over the last year) and it was painful riding. I played about with a length of 1" dowel to see where my neutral position was for handlebar grip and found that down and back was the least stressed position. I couldn't find a bar that would give me this position other than an Ergotec AHS. This adjustable bar allows me to have the 18° back and down that, with a shorter stem height, is proving very comfortable. Bar ends are available that provide other positions similar to a butterfly bar. Sitting on a cushion at the laptop also helped.

With drop bars a tall stem (e.g., Nitto 225) will bring the tops level with the saddle and this can be very comfortable with the right bars. I wonder if it is worth looking at the whole bike fit, i.e., the relative positions of pedals, saddle and bars. I hope you find a good setup.

Thanks, @esasjl. I think you're right that I will need to play around with quite a few variables of bike fit. The sheer number of factors in play is a bit overwhelming, tbh!

I don't want to bring the steering back too far. Butterfly bars, a shorter extension stem plus the rake of the steering tube and a taller stem will all bring it towards me.

The Ergotec ASH looks amazing. I guess it could be an upgrade if I get a new stem, butterfly bars, brakes etc sorted.

Thanks again,
Jeff

[Brucey]

FWIW when sorting out position issues like this I nearly always gravitate to fitting a new stem (if necessary an adjustable one) with the extant handlebars and controls, even if the handlebars are probably going to be changed.

The reason for this is that you would have to be doing something very wrong to have avoided getting at least one hand position that is correct for some of the time at least, especially if you have dropped bars (lots of positions). Having found that position, you can build from there, and plot/experiment with different positions with a view to different handlebars if necessary.

If you just go for different bars from the off, you will have to revise the controls as well, and there is a pretty fair chance that the setup won't suit you in the way you expected. In this case the whole lot may have to be redone (at vast expense of time and money) again.

cheers

[blaugrana]

FWIW when sorting out position issues like this I nearly always gravitate to fitting a new stem (if necessary an adjustable one) with the extant handlebars and controls, even if the handlebars are probably going to be changed.

The reason for this is that you would have to be doing something very wrong to have avoided getting at least one hand position that is correct for some of the time at least, especially if you have dropped bars (lots of positions). Having found that position, you can build from there, and plot/experiment with different positions with a view to different handlebars if necessary.

If you just go for different bars from the off, you will have to revise the controls as well, and there is a pretty fair chance that the setup won't suit you in the way you expected. In this case the whole lot may have to be redone (at vast expense of time and money) again.

cheers

Thanks very much for this advice, @brucey. I was going to go full bore, so your caution is very timely.

I am comparing the Dawes with my usual Brompton and a rarely ridden, heavily adapted (by a previous owner) Moulton APB. Three very different bikes with very different set-ups. Which does make things even more complicated, but does give me more idea of what works for me.

In a way, I/the Dawes fit(s) your "doing something very wrong" description. I don't feel comfortable/in control/happy in any position. I am happy on the Brompton, on which I am probably at maybe 30° to the vertical (cf @531Colin advice on posture) and the bars are essentially flat and not swept back, with controls and brakes at hand. With some bar ends it would be perfect (if it weren't for the fold).

So, I think what I want is to roughly mimic the ease of reaching controls and my posture on the Brompton. With some additional positions to ring the changes when not in town.

Apologies for thinking aloud. At length!

I shall re-read your warning before I do anything.

Thanks again,

Jeff

[slowster]

I think what I want is to roughly mimic the ease of reaching controls and my posture on the Brompton.

I suggest you:

1. Check the saddle positions on both bikes are the same (measure the horizontal distance of the saddle behind the bottom bracket as well as the saddle height).

2. Measure the distance of the saddle to the bars on the Brompton (probably best to the grips). Compare with the distances to the tops and hoods of your Galaxy.

3. Check if the handlebars on both bikes are the same height with respect to the saddle.

I would be very wary of expecting a significant improvement with butterfly bars on the Galaxy. I suspect that having your main grip position significantly closer to the steering axis (possibly in line with it, or even worse behind it) will result in excessively light/twitchy steering. If you need to significantly reduce the distance from saddle to bars, you may need a bike/frame that has been designed for flat bars (with a shorter top tube/reach than the Galaxy).

[Brucey]

In a way, I/the Dawes fit(s) your "doing something very wrong" description. I don't feel comfortable/in control/happy in any position.....

this might sound a bit mad but what you describe is very commonly a problem which has its basic root in the saddle vs BB position. IME if you get the saddle positioned correctly vs the BB, handlebars become much less of an issue.

The goal is to get it set up so that when you are pedalling normally, you are not having to lean on the handlebars. {NB when you stop pedalling, you do}. If you are not having to lean on the bars, things get a lot more comfortable automatically.

The most common issue is that the saddle is set too far forwards and this throws your weight onto the bars. A saddle set at the wrong angle can contribute to this too. A common side effect of a saddle which is set too low is that the handlebars also seem too low (eg because your thighs are too high at the top of the pedal stroke) even though they may not be. Whatever basic issues there might be with saddle position, they are liable to be felt worse on a bike you expect to spend all day on, rather than nip to the shops or whatever (a 'bolt upright' riding position is probably more tolerant of exact saddle position too). There is pretty much no point in even thinking about changing the handlebars unless you are 100% sure that the saddle position is as good as it can be.

So my advice is to experiment with changes in saddle position; keep notes of what you do (including accurate measurements, photos etc) so that you can easily return to a previous setting if needs be. You may find that just by changing the saddle position, the handlebars mysteriously become more comfortable too; this is never time wasted, because even if you do change the handlebars later, it is 'gravy' all the way.

cheers

[blaugrana]

I've got a tatty Giant adjustable quill stem in my bits box.

IMG_0964.jpg

IMG_0963.jpg

Thank you, @backnotes. You're a gent!

Jeff