Carrying luggage on bikes

[Mr.Benton]

I am of the old school of touring bikes where my luggage is carried on racks both front and rear, I try to split the load 60:40 rear to front, and carry the load low down.

It seems that modern bikes carry the load high up under the saddle, high up on the handlebars or front rack, and on the forks. Some pictures of these modern bikes show that more load is carried on the front than on the rear.

So, what is it about these bikes that has changed the way luggage is carried ?
Are the new bikes as stable with load, I imagine that steering is compromised due to a high front load. If not what is it about the geometry that makes the bike stable ?

Are there any real benefits or is it just fashion ?

Any opinions or thoughts ?

[Jdsk]

Avoiding racks avoids mass.

You haven't mentioned frame packs. And they and saddlebags could reduce rotational moment of inertia, notably in yaw.

Jonathan (Rear rack with panniers and tent or mats on top, front bar bags, no front panniers)

[rmurphy195]

Fashion IMHO

Its fashion not to have mudguards - thus no mudguard mounts, and no rack mounts. The rest is just making up for it, and opens up a whole new market for luggage that not only has to do the normal job, but also has to deal with stuff thrown up off the road, or the muddy track you are riding on!

Bonkers, in my view.

[AndyK]

You're talking about 'bikepacking', where the load is distributed into multiple locations on the bike, each tightly strapped down so it can't move about. It makes a lot of sense if you're touring offroad or partly offroad, as it stops the weight form moving about and bakes the bike easier to control. Yes, the centre of gravity will be higher, but many keen cycle tourists consider that a small price to pay for improved handling on rough ground.
Personally I prefer panniers or a rack pack because they're much easier to get at, but then I'm not riding offroad with them much. I'm open-minded enough to see that different solutions suit different situations.

@rmurphy: Actually the fashion is towards gravel bikes and light tourers equipped with mounting points for mudguards and rear racks. Sorry to ruin your theory.

[simonhill]

A recent post on another thread analysed shimmy on his bikes. One thing that stood out for me was that he reckoned it was worse with small (front) panniers on the rear (ie worse than full size rear panniers).

I was interested, because I would like to try some fronts on the rear (not that I have any), but don't fancy shimmy.

[rotavator]

A recent post on another thread analysed shimmy on his bikes. One thing that stood out for me was that he reckoned it was worse with small (front) panniers on the rear (ie worse than full size rear panniers).

I was interested, because I would like to try some fronts on the rear (not that I have any), but don't fancy shimmy.

FWIW I use small panniers on a rear rack on a Thorn bike and I have had no trouble with shimmy.

The only time that I have experienced serious shimmy was on my unloaded Van Nicholas Yukon, especially once descending the Bealach na Ba, and I now know that I can easily cure it by pressing a knee against the top tube.

[gregoryoftours]

Bikepacking setups tend to concentrate on the more paired down side of luggage and off-road so the high position/light load makes sense for clearance/handling/effort of pedaling off road. Of course lots of people might not use that sort of bike like that, but that's what's being marketed hard these days. Plenty of people do that sort of bikepacking too though. To some extent the need for mudguards is offset a bit (a very little bit in my opinion) by some of the luggage taking the hit, but where mudguards aren't going to clag up they are so much better. You physically can't carry as much as fully loaded touring, and touring bikes are still around, eg many in UK, surly truckers, trek 520 etc. I can't really imagine managing to pare down my stuff enough to go bikepacking style - someone else would have to make the cuts! Some parts of the trips I've been on would have been a lot easier with a lot lighter weight, but I do like a bit of comfort too.

[PH]

So, what is it about these bikes that has changed the way luggage is carried ?

A starting point might be considering the load being carried before getting into the how.
If you distributed the four pannier load on a typical Gravel type bike it would not handle well, however if you were carrying the sorts of loads they're intended for in four panniers on a traditional touring bike, it would be overbuilt and unnecessarily heavy.
Fashion, well yes in as much as everything is to some extent.

[tenbikes]

It's an on road , off road thing.

Panniers low down are a disaster on single track, and if my touring isn't 50% single track I boobed on the planning !

Back in my youth I did tour on road and low was good.

Modern mountain bike geometry is significantly different too, and makes a huge difference to handling characteristic s....

[rmurphy195]

You're talking about 'bikepacking', where the load is distributed into multiple locations on the bike, each tightly strapped down so it can't move about. It makes a lot of sense if you're touring offroad or partly offroad, as it stops the weight form moving about and bakes the bike easier to control. Yes, the centre of gravity will be higher, but many keen cycle tourists consider that a small price to pay for improved handling on rough ground.
Personally I prefer panniers or a rack pack because they're much easier to get at, but then I'm not riding offroad with them much. I'm open-minded enough to see that different solutions suit different situations.

@rmurphy: Actually the fashion is towards gravel bikes and light tourers equipped with mounting points for mudguards and rear racks. Sorry to ruin your theory.

oh well, another one down ...

[thirdcrank]

I am of the old school of touring bikes ....

I'm unclear of the timeline here. I fancy more depends on the type of touring than anything, but when I was still at school as in "teenager" a Camper Longflap was more than enough.

[Brucey]

It seems that modern bikes carry the load high up under the saddle, high up on the handlebars or front rack, and on the forks. Some pictures of these modern bikes show that more load is carried on the front than on the rear.

So, what is it about these bikes that has changed the way luggage is carried ?
Are the new bikes as stable with load, I imagine that steering is compromised due to a high front load. If not what is it about the geometry that makes the bike stable ?

Are there any real benefits or is it just fashion ?

in some parts front loading has long been the norm. In France for example where in the UK you might use a saddlebag they have often favoured a bar bag instead, supported on a small rack. Once you have this it is only small step to adding panniers to that rack.

The logic is that the loads (even quite heavy ones) carried this way can be reacted into the front wheel axle and don't interfere with the loading in the main parts of the frameset as much as a (potentially swaying) rear load might. And whilst in the UK 32F 40R wheels were long the norm, in France they have used 36F 36R for much longer, meaning that (relatively speaking) the wheelset is more suited to a front load rather than a rear one.

There is a school of thought that bikes built for more front loading ought to have a slightly steeper head angle and lower trail in the steering.

Bikepacking has its adherents but the bags do tend to take the paint off the bike and also they can flap around unless they are strapped up pretty tight. Going into some of the bags can be a bit of a palaver, both going in and strapping up after.

Claims of stability are varied; some folk claim to be able to ride no hands even with a bag that looks like a 'forwards facing rudder'. I think a lot depends on the frame/steering geometry and the perception/expectation of the rider. Carrying loads high isn't anywhere near as big a deal as you might expect; the biggest load on the bike is the rider and that is always much higher than any luggage. Whilst loads which turn with the steering obviously are going to affect things, you can (more or less) get used to anything.

When it comes to carrying luggage there is clearly more than one way of doing it, and the main thing is to make sure that it stays attached to the bike, that it comes on and off tolerably easily and doesn't cause unacceptable problems in use. It is easy to look at different setups (which all meet these primary requirements if they are done right) and then to get fixated on their secondary features. One thing is true though and that is that different luggage setups suit different framesets better than others so you pretty much make your choice when you buy the bike.

A lot of it is fashion though; a typical bikepacker wouldn't dream of panniers and a rack even if they worked fine on the routes they might ride.

One of my chums uses a bikepacking setup and he has a wee bag strapped to the top tube behind the stem. I've seen this bag open and empty several times so I asked recently what he uses it for; 'MacDonald's French Fries' he told me. "They keep me going"... I now call it his 'nosebag'...

cheers

[RickH]

It doesn't have to be an either/or. You can mix & match. When I got my current bike (Kona Sutra) I got a 13l Alpkit Koala to replace the rear rack & rack bag for day to day use. That took over a kg off the all up weight to compensate for the heavier bike. When I want to carry more stuff I will usually add front panniers (or, more recently, bikepacking bags with frames that mount direct to the forks. Podsacs from PlanetX that I picked up cheap in a sale when I was ordering something else. They have half the capacity of my panniers & half the all up weight). I've even used rear panniers on the front when I just couldn't quite get all the stuff I wanted in the front panniers for an early season camping weekend.

So far I've only done the full 4 panniers for supermarket shopping by bike, stowing the empty front panniers in the rears on the way to the shop.

The rear rack can also be useful for carrying awkward (unusual) loads.

Pannier (with fruit & veg from greengrocer), cymbal stand & toilet seat

[francovendee]

Here in France they tour with rear racks and a rarely anything on the front wheel, often on MTB's.

If you look at Decathlon France you'll see rear racks and panniers for them but nothing for the front.

I've been asked a few times where I got my front rack from.

[Jamesh]

I'd take a carradice longflap over a bike packing seat bag.

Even my carradice seatbag (maxi) swings too much and that's quite close to the seat.

Frame bags are great but a devil to fill.

I find handlebar bags plain heavy not to mention the wind resistance.

Just my limited experience.

Cheers James