Post-Brexit - buying bike parts abroad . . (incl. Rose/DutchBikeParts)

[freiston]

Nor did I - is it wrong to feel disappointed?

[Sweep]

Bad news about bikester.
Thought they were one of the few that had hoop jumped.
Please update with any news.
Wiggle/chain reaction long been useless for many practical bits.

[peterb]

Used to buy quite a bit from Rose - including a complete bike. Most of the odds and ends I bought from Rose (and other EU suppliers) were (and still are) simply not available from the cycling 'boutiques' in this country. Brave new world - less choice, higher prices! Sad...

[PH]

Starbike are happy to ship to the UK for orders over £135, they've removed the German VAT, so you're liable for UK VAT and the handling fee (Which is variable) There are stories of orders sometimes being delivered without the VAT or fees, though it hasn't happened to me. They stock some parts which are still more economical than buying in the UK, Rohloff, MKS, SON... though I miss using them for smaller orders.
BikeInn in Spain are still sending orders of any value, via some sort of UK partner, so the VAT and handling are dealt with by them, I may have mentioned them before. Most recent order was some tyres and mudguards not in stock in the UK, having German products shipped from Spain (Probably flown) wouldn't be my first choice, but...

[freiston]

Thanks for the information, PH. I've now bookmarked those suppliers.

[MartinC]

......Most of the odds and ends I bought from Rose (and other EU suppliers) were (and still are) simply not available from the cycling 'boutiques' in this country. Brave new world - less choice, higher prices! Sad...

Exactly. Brexit idiocy.

[UpWrong]

It's very galling when an EU company will sell and ship to a customer in the States but not to a customer in UK. It feels punitive.

[PH]

It's very galling when an EU company will sell and ship to a customer in the States but not to a customer in UK. It feels punitive.

I think the politics are best left for one of the other threads, but if anyone is interested in why it's like that:
For orders over Euro 150 the process is identical wherever a EU retailer exports - Remove the VAT, attach an international customs declaration, give it to the courier and everything else is the customer's responsibility. From a UK consumer's perspective that's exactly the same as buying from outside the EU, when we were a member, has always been. If retailers sell enough volume to that market they can set up a partner and ship to them on a business to business basis before forwarding to the consumer with all taxes paid.
For orders under £135, it's more complicated, to sell to the UK they have to register, collect and forward the VAT, or as above establish a UK based partner. That's the same for selling from anywhere outside the UK. It's almost identical for selling into the EU from anywhere outside, including the UK. The difference of course is scale, a single registration gets you access to the entire EU market, yet it's a similar level of cost and complexity just for the UK.
I think some of the reluctance is the lack of understanding from the consumer, if they don't realise their order will arrive with a big bill they'll take it up with the retailer, who has no responsibility. There's also the cost to the retailer, they can't sell outside their own market for the same price without reducing their margin, though by how much again depends on scale.

[Galactic]

It's very galling when an EU company will sell and ship to a customer in the States but not to a customer in UK. It feels punitive.

It's not punitive. It's the UK govt p*ssing everyone around. While the rules are theoretically clear, the UK govt has allowed itself all sorts of exceptions, and there is no consistency with how imports are treated by customs. Additionally, in search of notional (sic) sovereignty, the government has deliberately opted for more onerous and expensive options when it comes to duties and paperwork, despite being offered (on many occasions) lighter touch options by EU bodies.

Basically suppliers don't know what to expect, and not only do they stand to lose money by reimbursing disgruntled customers who are made to pay VAT, duty and handling charges that has already been sorted by the supplier, they also lose goodwill from disgruntled customers. And because we have the internet nowadays, disgruntled UK customers aren't only heard from in the UK, but also in core markets in Europe. Why would any business voluntarily risk loss of cash and goodwill?

These are risks that European sellers don't have to take when exporting to the US (and most of the rest of the world). There are clear procedures and clear expectations on how those procedures will be applied, and those expectations are likely to remain fairly static for the foreseeable future. Equals little business risk in exporting to the US.

To be fair, the inconsistent rule following happens on the continent too. I was in a German bookshop the other year, and noticed all their English language books were imported from the US. They said they try to avoid getting books from the UK because they didn't know whether they'd get the order within a few days or would be held by customs for a few weeks. The exception was big names like Le Carre's posthumously published last book, where the UK publishers obviously made an effort to serve foreign markets (presumably by exporting to an EU-based warehouse and distributing to EU bookshops from there).

But basically, the UK govt isn't trusted any more, after all their flip-flopping, obstructiveness and promise breaking, which makes it a business risk when importing and exporting products into and from the UK.

[Sweep]

It's very galling when an EU company will sell and ship to a customer in the States but not to a customer in UK. It feels punitive.

I think the politics are best left for one of the other threads, but if anyone is interested in why it's like that:
For orders over Euro 150 the process is identical wherever a EU retailer exports - Remove the VAT, attach an international customs declaration, give it to the courier and everything else is the customer's responsibility. From a UK consumer's perspective that's exactly the same as buying from outside the EU, when we were a member, has always been. If retailers sell enough volume to that market they can set up a partner and ship to them on a business to business basis before forwarding to the consumer with all taxes paid.
For orders under £135, it's more complicated, to sell to the UK they have to register, collect and forward the VAT, or as above establish a UK based partner. That's the same for selling from anywhere outside the UK. It's almost identical for selling into the EU from anywhere outside, including the UK. The difference of course is scale, a single registration gets you access to the entire EU market, yet it's a similar level of cost and complexity just for the UK.
I think some of the reluctance is the lack of understanding from the consumer, if they don't realise their order will arrive with a big bill they'll take it up with the retailer, who has no responsibility. There's also the cost to the retailer, they can't sell outside their own market for the same price without reducing their margin, though by how much again depends on scale.

thanks for the repeat of the clarification.
One question (have not bought from EU since Brexit) - on stuff under £135 whose responsibility is it to ensure that the seller has registered with the UK and is paying tax? Can you as a buyer assume that the seller has done this and so are in the clear with regards to further charges? Can't help but think this might not be wise. If not, what proof do you need from the seller (world is full of waffle merchants of course) that all is above board and that there will be no nasty surprises?
It IS my understanding that buying from an EU seller through an Amazon or ebay front-end they are using is OK as Amazon/ebay will ensure that all VAT/customs is sorted before stuff gets to blighty. Folks feel free to correct me on this of course.

[PH]

One question (have not bought from EU since Brexit) - on stuff under £135 whose responsibility is it to ensure that the seller has registered with the UK and is paying tax? Can you as a buyer assume that the seller has done this and so are in the clear with regards to further charges?

It's the retailers responsibility, there is no opt out, even if both parties were to agree. There were stories early on about some couriers not understanding this, but I haven't heard of that recently and it ought to be understood by now.

It IS my understanding that buying from an EU seller through an Amazon or ebay front-end they are using is OK as Amazon/ebay will ensure that all VAT/customs is sorted before stuff gets to blighty. Folks feel free to correct me on this of course.

For orders under £135, yes. They're deemed to be the seller for this purpose and there's no opt out.
For over £135, it depends. I know Amazon can act as an import agent, but I don't know if they always do. I don't know if eBay offer that, I suspect not. In all cases the retailer has an obligation to inform the consumer before purchase what taxes the the price includes. I'm not sure if they have to inform you if any others are due, it makes sense for them to do so, but they don't have to calculate what they may be.

For myself, I always use a credit card for imported good, I work out what it should cost, the only variable being the couriers handling fee for orders over £135. If I were presented with an invoice that was incorrect, I would reject the order without paying it and if the retailer didn't sort it out I'd claim a refund as a non delivery from the CC company. That hasn't happened to me yet.

[st599_uk]

One question (have not bought from EU since Brexit) - on stuff under £135 whose responsibility is it to ensure that the seller has registered with the UK and is paying tax? Can you as a buyer assume that the seller has done this and so are in the clear with regards to further charges? Can't help but think this might not be wise. If not, what proof do you need from the seller (world is full of waffle merchants of course) that all is above board and that there will be no nasty surprises?
It IS my understanding that buying from an EU seller through an Amazon or ebay front-end they are using is OK as Amazon/ebay will ensure that all VAT/customs is sorted before stuff gets to blighty. Folks feel free to correct me on this of course.

Shipment value under £135, not the value of the goods. The £135 includes any shipping and insurance fees.

The other issue is the Rules On Origin. If you buy a bike, then the original manufacture location of each component is taken in to consideration and if 70% isn't made in the EU, then Customs will add a 14% tariff.

[UpWrong]

One question (have not bought from EU since Brexit) - on stuff under £135 whose responsibility is it to ensure that the seller has registered with the UK and is paying tax? Can you as a buyer assume that the seller has done this and so are in the clear with regards to further charges? Can't help but think this might not be wise. If not, what proof do you need from the seller (world is full of waffle merchants of course) that all is above board and that there will be no nasty surprises?
It IS my understanding that buying from an EU seller through an Amazon or ebay front-end they are using is OK as Amazon/ebay will ensure that all VAT/customs is sorted before stuff gets to blighty. Folks feel free to correct me on this of course.

Shipment value under £135, not the value of the goods. The £135 includes any shipping and insurance fees.

The other issue is the Rules On Origin. If you buy a bike, then the original manufacture location of each component is taken in to consideration and if 70% isn't made in the EU, then Customs will add a 14% tariff.

Thought it was 51% not 70%. I think some EU retailers can't be bothered with Origin declarations so we end up paying import tariffs when we shouldn't.

[st599_uk]

One question (have not bought from EU since Brexit) - on stuff under £135 whose responsibility is it to ensure that the seller has registered with the UK and is paying tax? Can you as a buyer assume that the seller has done this and so are in the clear with regards to further charges? Can't help but think this might not be wise. If not, what proof do you need from the seller (world is full of waffle merchants of course) that all is above board and that there will be no nasty surprises?
It IS my understanding that buying from an EU seller through an Amazon or ebay front-end they are using is OK as Amazon/ebay will ensure that all VAT/customs is sorted before stuff gets to blighty. Folks feel free to correct me on this of course.

Shipment value under £135, not the value of the goods. The £135 includes any shipping and insurance fees.

The other issue is the Rules On Origin. If you buy a bike, then the original manufacture location of each component is taken in to consideration and if 70% isn't made in the EU, then Customs will add a 14% tariff.

Thought it was 51% not 70%. I think some EU retailers can't be bothered with Origin declarations so we end up paying import tariffs when we shouldn't.

There are different figures for e-bikes and bikes. I think 51% is the e-bike figure (due to the batteries).

[Carlton green]

We are where we are so, setting politics and forty plus pages aside, who sells into the UK from Europe?

I don’t want anything complex, just a front fork dynamo mounting bracket (which appear to be unavailable in the UK but used on the continent).

Thanks in anticipation of your responses.