Post-Brexit - buying bike parts abroad . . (incl. Rose/DutchBikeParts)

[Jdsk]

"VAT and overseas goods sold directly to customers in the UK from 1 January 2021", updated 24/12/2020:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-and-overseas-goods-sold-directly-to-customers-in-great-britain-from-1-january-2021

"Goods in the UK at the point of sale - sold by an overseas seller through an online marketplace", updated 3/12/2020:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021#goods-in-the-uk-at-the-point-of-sale---sold-by-an-overseas-seller-through-an-online-marketplace

Jonathan

[PH]

EDIT - I see you found it
This one is as bite sized as it gets and appears to have been updated this week
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-and-ove ... 21#history

If I can remember what it's called I'll add a link the the regulations for all OMPs published earlier this year, though you could probably find that yourself as well.

[Jdsk]

Is that the second link in my post of 11:53?

Thanks

Jonathan

[Bmblbzzz]

So it seems to sell items worth less than £135 to the UK, non-UK retailers will have to register for UK VAT. That's not just from the EU, it's from anywhere in the world. Doable if you're as big as Rose, but for anyone smaller, no way. Anything off ebay, amazon marketplace, aliexpress, etsy, etc, is liable to be unavailable to the UK!

[Audax67]

No problems with Rose here ( ) but I'm going to miss some of the good suppliers in the UK.

Why do you think you will be denied reasonable access to UK suppliers?

Depends on the definition of reason. Customs are likely to be over-zealous for a while after the Great Schism - enough to make it easier to order within the EU.

[Bmblbzzz]

So it seems to sell items worth less than £135 to the UK, non-UK retailers will have to register for UK VAT. That's not just from the EU, it's from anywhere in the world. Doable if you're as big as Rose, but for anyone smaller, no way. Anything off ebay, amazon marketplace, aliexpress, etsy, etc, is liable to be unavailable to the UK!

Ah no, there's separate guidance for ebay et al.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-and-ove ... nuary-2021

[sun ra]

Worth noting this. So fingers crossed, any orders already placed should be exempt.

[Jdsk]

Attempted explainer from the Guardian: "UK shoppers face Brexit duties on holiday and online purchases":
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/28/brexit-customs-duties-to-apply-to-eu-goods-worth-more-than-390
links to
"Bringing goods into Great Britain from outside the UK from 1 January 2021":
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/bringing-goods-into-great-britain-from-outside-the-uk-from-1-january-2021

Jonathan

[Sweep]

No problems with Rose here ( ) but I'm going to miss some of the good suppliers in the UK.

Why do you think you will be denied reasonable access to UK suppliers?

Depends on the definition of reason. Customs are likely to be over-zealous for a while after the Great Schism - enough to make it easier to order within the EU.

Over zealous how?
As long as you aren't trying to pull a fast one (have heard of folks ordering from the east in the past conspiring with the seller to underdeclare value) I can't see there being a problem.

[Sweep]

So it seems to sell items worth less than £135 to the UK, non-UK retailers will have to register for UK VAT. That's not just from the EU, it's from anywhere in the world. Doable if you're as big as Rose, but for anyone smaller, no way. Anything off ebay, amazon marketplace, aliexpress, etsy, etc, is liable to be unavailable to the UK!

Question related to the £135, which seems to be agreed on.
Is the £135 the value excluding VAT or including VAT?
Particularly if the former I can't see this being a great problem for me.

[rualexander]

.... That's not just from the EU, it's from anywhere in the world. Doable if you're as big as Rose, but for anyone smaller, no way. Anything off ebay, amazon marketplace, aliexpress, etsy, etc, is liable to be unavailable to the UK!

That can't be right.
It must just mean that you'll have to pay customs and vat charges before the item is released to you by Royal Mail or whoever, the same way as you do at the moment when buying something from non EU sources like USA, etc.

[Bmblbzzz]

Excluding. If it's under that amount, retailer has to register for VAT and charge it to customer, then settle with HMRC.

Consignments valued at £135 or less
The seller must charge and account for VAT at the point of sale, unless the consignment is a business to business sale and the customer has given them their UK VAT registration number.

To charge and account for VAT the seller will need to:

know the precise nature of the goods to find out the correct rate of VAT to charge
register for VAT - sellers that are already registered for VAT do not need to re-register
keep records of the goods sold, and make sure they get accurate information to apply the correct VAT treatment to them

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-and-ove ... nt-of-sale
If the consignment is above £135, customer is liable to HMRC for VAT once it arrives in UK.

The effect is likely to be that sellers outside UK will not send anything less than that amount to UK. So eg you want to buy a dynamo light from Bike24, they won't send it to a UK address (unless you add a few extra items).

[Bmblbzzz]

.... That's not just from the EU, it's from anywhere in the world. Doable if you're as big as Rose, but for anyone smaller, no way. Anything off ebay, amazon marketplace, aliexpress, etsy, etc, is liable to be unavailable to the UK!

That can't be right.
It must just mean that you'll have to pay customs and vat charges before the item is released to you by Royal Mail or whoever, the same way as you do at the moment when buying something from non EU sources like USA, etc.

I think I was wrong about 'anywhere in the world' but it's right from EU to UK. If it's under the limit, the EU seller is liable to HMRC for VAT.

[Jdsk]

This just appeared in another thread (thanks, slowster):

Dutch Bike Bits
https://www.dutchbikebits.com/shipping

"Brexit

Unfortunately, we will not be able to send parcels to the UK from mid December 2020 onward. Quite apart from uncertainty surrounding the shipping cost, taxation etc. after that time, there is also a problem caused by the British government deciding to impose a unique taxation regime which will require every company in the world in every country in the world outside the UK which exports to the UK to apply and collect British taxes on behalf of the British government. For providing this service they intend to charge a fee to every company in the world in every country in the world which exports to the UK. Clearly this is ludicrous for one country, but imagine if every country in the world had the same idea. If every country decided to behave in the same way then we would have to pay 195 fees every year, keep up with the changes in taxation law for 195 different countries, keep accounts on behalf of 195 different countries and submit payments to 195 tax offices in 195 different countries, and jump through whatever hoops were required to prove that we were doing all of this honestly and without any error.

Therefore from mid December 2020 onward we ship to every country in the world... except the UK."

Jonathan

[Sweep]

This just appeared in another thread (thanks, slowster):

Dutch Bike Bits
https://www.dutchbikebits.com/shipping

"Brexit

Unfortunately, we will not be able to send parcels to the UK from mid December 2020 onward. Quite apart from uncertainty surrounding the shipping cost, taxation etc. after that time, there is also a problem caused by the British government deciding to impose a unique taxation regime which will require every company in the world in every country in the world outside the UK which exports to the UK to apply and collect British taxes on behalf of the British government. For providing this service they intend to charge a fee to every company in the world in every country in the world which exports to the UK. Clearly this is ludicrous for one country, but imagine if every country in the world had the same idea. If every country decided to behave in the same way then we would have to pay 195 fees every year, keep up with the changes in taxation law for 195 different countries, keep accounts on behalf of 195 different countries and submit payments to 195 tax offices in 195 different countries, and jump through whatever hoops were required to prove that we were doing all of this honestly and without any error.

Therefore from mid December 2020 onward we ship to every country in the world... except the UK."

Jonathan

mm - persuasively written - not looking good - so much for Boris's no non tariff barriers.
Will try to keep an eye on Rose and Taylor Wheels.