13-32 Freewheel Doesn't Work

[OldLimey]

I recently bought a Cyclone Mark 1 7sp 13-32 freewheel. I've been searching for a long time for a freewheel with a larger bottom gear sprocket than 28 T, and this seemed to be the answer.

Last Friday I swapped the 14-28 for the 13-32, then spent the next four hours trying to get it work. I've done quite a few freewheels but this one had me beat. I couldn't imagine what was wrong with it, so I put it in the hands of my LBS.

Today, he called to say the freewheel doesn't have an indexed sprocket, so he can't make it work. I paid $80 (£60) for it, plus shipping, so I'm attempting to get a refund.

If this won't work on my bike, then it seems it won't work on any bike. But it does say it's a "racing design." My question is: What is a racing design that makes it different to other freewheels?

Incidentally, when I bought the bike last January, it came with a Megarange freewheel. I hated it because it went from 24 T to 34 T. Too much of a difference. This is why I put the 14:28 on it.

https://www.modernbike.com/interloc-rac ... 32t-silver

[Brucey]

as part of my ongoing experiments with freewheels I recently bought some IRD cyclone sprockets just to trial the fit on other freewheel bodies. They looked a lot like the ones in this picture



I.e. they have some shaped tooth tops and relieved tooth profiles, but they don't have obvious HG ramps. I too was curious about the shifting performance, but have yet to try them out in anger.

Whether lack of HG-type ramps automatically makes them "non-index sprockets" is a matter of debate; after all UG sprockets were index sprockets and they didn't have HG ramps either.

The older model IRD 'classica' freewheel has more obvious HG-esque shifting ramps



the cyclone model is meant to be the improved model; IIRC it is rumoured to be made for IRD by a different subcontractor.

Unless IRD have completely screwed up here I would imagine that there are other things about your transmission (eg chain type, shifter, rear mech etc) condition which may be affecting the shifting, as well as the sprockets themselves. But on the face of it I wouldn't expect the cyclone sprockets to shift as well as older IRD sprockets, or indeed even SunRace sprockets.

BTW re 'racing design'; IRD stands for 'interloc racing design' and is the company name.

cheers

[cycleruk]

Initially I can only suggest to check the spacing of the sprockets. Place a known freewheel against it to see if the spacing matches. If you shift the rear mech' does does the top jockey wheel line up with each sprocket in turn. (easier checked without a chain).
Which groupset are you using ?
In what way doesn't it index ?
Does any part index at all ?

In theory all 7 speed has a sprocket pitch of 5mm and an overall stack width of ~ 32mm

[OldLimey]

...they have some shaped tooth tops and relieved tooth profiles, but they don't have obvious HG ramps. I too was curious about the shifting performance, but have yet to try them out in anger.

Whether lack of HG-type ramps automatically makes them "non-index sprockets" is a matter of debate; after all UG sprockets were index sprockets and they didn't have HG ramps either...

The cogs were plain flat, no ramps or whatever else it takes to make them indexing cogs. The LBS owner has been in the bike business for 43 years and has an excellent reputation, so I trust him. If he can't make it work, who can?

As I said, I fiddled with it for four hours. If the chain refused to move up onto a larger cog, I turned the barrel adjuster out a 1/4 turn at a time, but then it made a noise being too close to the next cog. If I backed it out, it wouldn't go up onto the next largest cog. I managed to get it to move across five cogs but no more. At one time I could get it onto the largest cog, but then it wouldn't move down to the smallest cog.

I put the old freewheel and chain back on the bike and it was fine. Both the chain and freewheel have 1345 miles on them, and I have cleaned and lubed the chain every 100 miles. Because I was going from a 12-28 to a 13-32, I bought a new chain as it needed to be two links longer. So it wasn't a chain problem. I would still like to get a freewheel with a larger 1st gear cog, and have found a Sunrace that seems to fit the bill. The cogs are 11,13,15,18,22,28,34. I don't need that highest gear; a 14T would be adequate being a beach cruiser. And the jump from 28T to 34T is better than the 26T to 34T of the Megarange. It's also a heck of a lot cheaper than the Cyclone. I so wish I could try it out, first.

Anyway, ModernBike has agree to a refund. I have to think about this other freewheel I found. The only reason I wanted to change it was because in a headwind on the cruiser with its stretched frame, pedaling can be pretty tough with the 14-28. I guess when it's windy, I should use the 20 speed fat bike.

https://www.modernbike.com/sunrace-csm4 ... e---11-34t

[OldLimey]

Initially I can only suggest to check the spacing of the sprockets. Place a known freewheel against it to see if the spacing matches. If you shift the rear mech' does does the top jockey wheel line up with each sprocket in turn. (easier checked without a chain).
Which groupset are you using ?
In what way doesn't it index ?
Does any part index at all ?

In theory all 7 speed has a sprocket pitch of 5mm and an overall stack width of ~ 32mm

Groupset is Shimano. I checked the spacings and they were all good. The jockey wheels lined up with the cogs with the exception of the smallest cog where the jockey wheel needed to be slightly inboard. I read, some time ago, that Shimano derailleur jockey wheels need to be slightly inboard. With the new freewheel I tried it lined up, inboard and outboard; I tried it every which way. This is why I was so puzzled; the cogs matched the cogs on the current freewheel. I actually toyed with the idea of putting a spacer on the hub to bring the new freewheel out a bit further, but I didn't do it.

I'm not sure what you mean by it not indexing. What I was seeing was that even with the top jockey wheel lined up with a middle cog. a tiny fraction too far and the chain made a noise as it rubbed against the next larger cog. Turned the barrel adjuster in a 1/4 turn to stop the noise, and the chain wouldn't then go up onto the next cog. If the spacings are all equal, then evidently something is amiss with the cog.

I know some folks like to adjust the derailleur with the chain off, but I've never had a problem like this, before, and I don't think it would have helped. If a pro can't make it work, then something really is wrong. When I was trying to get it to work, I began to suspect the trigger shifter, and I also suspected the derailleur, but the mechanic found nothing wrong with them. Now that I've put the 14-28 freewheel back on the hub, and it works smoothly, it points to a definite problem with the Cyclone freewheel. If it wouldn't work on my bike, I fail to see how it will work on anyone's bike that uses a 7 speed freewheel. This makes me wonder if the cogs missed some kind of machining process during manufacture.

[Brucey]

It might be worth you saying what chain(s) you have tried, and what derailleur you are using, whether it is new or used etc.

Not all index sprockets look identical



ARIS index sprocket



SunTour Accushift Plus index sprocket



Shimano Uniglide Index sprocket

nor do they all work equally well or with the same chain, either. I agree the features on the IRD Cyclone sprockets don't look exactly like other indexed sprockets but that doesn't mean that they are definitely not index-compatible sprockets. If they were super-fussy about chain type then you would expect IRD to say so and make chain recommendations accordingly. If you can post photographs of them they can be compared with other IRD cyclone sprockets, but all the sprockets and pictures of sprockets I have seen have all looked the same so far.

Maybe others could say how they have got on with IRD cyclone freewheels?

cheers

[landsurfer]

Is the freewheel designed for friction gear changing rather than indexing .. I use 9 speed index designed freewheels with 105 rear mechs and friction changing levers but i doubt it would work the other way round ...

[pwa]

The image linked to does show sprockets with teeth shaped in various ways, though not thinned in the way that Shimano teeth are. It is clearly intended to have some shifting assistance. It would be interesting to see how it got on with a friction lever, whether it just requires that extra little push to work.

[PT1029]

Sorry to disappoint you, your link https://www.modernbike.com/sunrace-csm4 ... e---11-34t is for a cassette, not screw on freewheel.
If you change to a cassette rear hub, you could then use the 11 - 34. If you went down the cassette hub path, the odds are you'd end up with an 8 speed cassette body, which gives you more choice if cassette ratios/brands, including ones starting with 12t rather than 11t (or a 7 s cassette with a spacer on the back).

[pwa]

Is the OP's system run with indexed downtube levers?

I'm not sure a 7 speed cassette hub is the answer. The last time I looked they were thin on the ground too. And different hubs mean having to think about the OLN.

[peetee]

I’m struggling to understand what exactly is the problem with the freewheel. Is it that the tooth profile does not allow a clean shift or that the cog spacing is not compatible with index systems?

[pwa]

I’m struggling to understand what exactly is the problem with the freewheel. Is it that the tooth profile does not allow a clean shift or that the cog spacing is not compatible with index systems?

Or if the mech just doesn't suit that range of sprockets. The mech is likely to be quite old too, which may not help.

[Brucey]

I’m struggling to understand what exactly is the problem with the freewheel. Is it that the tooth profile does not allow a clean shift or that the cog spacing is not compatible with index systems?

Or if the mech just doesn't suit that range of sprockets. The mech is likely to be quite old too, which may not help.

OP isn't saying much about his setup other than that he bought the bike last January and it came with a megarange freewheel with a 34T sprocket. My guess is that the RD might be both budget and now worn, and that it won't shift correctly except with a hyperglide type sprocket set.

With some setups, indexing that works at all should be regarded as a (largely temporary) bonus rather than a permanent state of affairs. I certainly wouldn't expect the indexing to work on some systems unless a hyperglide type freewheel/cassette is used, which means you can try and use some other index-compatible parts and they won't work properly.

I have several times put together some assemblage of parts that I know are not the finest and have been pleasantly surprised by the shift quality. However I also know that this is 100% reliant upon the chain and sprockets being hyperglide type, and that even with those parts fitted one shouldn't expect this state of affairs to continue indefinitely.

cheers

[OldLimey]

It might be worth you saying what chain(s) you have tried, and what derailleur you are using, whether it is new or used etc.

Not all index sprockets look identical
cheers

The chain was the original that came with the bike and was 11 months old, and in excellent condition. I bought a new chain from the bike shop to use with the Cyclone Freewheel. I didn't try the original chain because I had shortened it when I removed the Megarange and put the 14-28 on the hub.

[OldLimey]

Is the freewheel designed for friction gear changing rather than indexing .. I use 9 speed index designed freewheels with 105 rear mechs and friction changing levers but i doubt it would work the other way round ...

I don't know. The ad said nothing about needing a friction shifter.