Airnimal chameleon vs joey

[SA_SA_SA]

1 The chameleon looks unnecessarily complicated compsred to the joey to me? Is the complication worth iy?

2 Given that most TOCS' definition of a folding bike involves 20in wheels or less , would a 20in big appled joey be of interest to some?

[rotavator]

I have had a look at ads and reviews of them but haven't seen one in the metal and I cannot really see the point of them unless you are looking for something a bit different to stand out from the crowd. If you want/need a folder to carry on public transport, why not go for one with 16-20" wheels?

[SA_SA_SA]

Because they are compromised toward ordinary ride feel vs a quick fold which suits occasional bailout etc by train / bus better?

[PH]

I have a Joey which I like, even when I don't need a bike to fold. I've toured on it, used it for some CTC group rides, as a back up Deliveroo bike, and it's very useful for guests, as most people seem able to get a comfortable fit. It's been folded and travelled with me by coach through Europe and the UK, and in the boots of several cars, both hired and friends. The times I have used it on the train I could have used a full sized bike. I have a bag and trailer on order for it which when things get moving again I'm hoping to use on some more coach journeys. It's a decent all rounder bike that folds, it isn't the best bike to ride, but on many rides it isn't giving up much, but it isn't the best folder. I wouldn't want to fold it for a train every day, in fact this is my second Joey, I sold the first in favour of a Dahon when I needed something for daily rush hour train journeys.

I've never ridden a Chameleon, though I know a couple of people who have them. It seems to be designed with the intention of being a folding road bike, the suspension going some way to mitigate the narrow tyres on small wheels. I was reading of someone who TT's on theirs and has achieved their best times. I've also ridden some Audax with someone who uses one and they frequently fly with it in a case for continental Sportives. I've also seen some roadified Joeys, so I'm not sure how big a difference there is.

[Given that most TOCS' definition of a folding bike involves 20in wheels or less , would a 20in big appled joey be of interest to some?

I'm not sure the first part of that is correct, I've read conflicting reports, but as it doesn't concern me I haven't needed to confirm it. Either way, IMO it isn't the right bike for it (Though I know some use it) it's a pretty ungainly package when folded, it certainly isn't going to fit in most train luggage racks. The small wheel folder is also a market that's seems well catered for, I doubt Airnimal would be interested in entering it unless they had something different to offer. Though it's none of my business so I could be completely wrong.

[Tangled Metal]

I think these larger wheel folders are me about normal riding with the ability to fold for more compact storage, travelling in the boot of a car/camper or other reason. As to travelling on public transport it's more about a slightly more compact package than a rigid bike but still as a bike not a piece of luggage. You want piece of luggage you're into Brompton territory and out of a decent ride the rest of the time.

There's a few exceptions it seems to me. Birdy do a full suspension, small wheel bike that's got a small pack size similar to brompton I think. It's good enough ride for touring with 4 panniers, even off road capable in some formats.

I've looked at a few folders recently. It started with Brompton for straight commuting but then I got thinking what else. A discussion about next year's cycle tour drifted to further afield. We usually ditch the van or car at a UK ferry terminal and cycle straight onto a ferry to start our holiday. This leaves us with few options as with a 7 year old you can't do much more than 40 miles a day. We started thinking about Denmark by plane which made me wonder about a folder for touring on.

IMHO the Joey, Birdy and bike Friday are the best folders for touring and riding on. Former is straight two frame size off the peg and not too expensive. It's a decent bike for the money I reckon. Birdy is more costly, a bit complex, folds small and good ride because of fs. The latter option is basically a custom made bike and expensive. Options for every eventuality you might want for a folder.

Joey and chameleon are by the same brand but IMHO ones a more mixed use bike and the other more about trying to be a road bike like ride I think. Never tried any folder but been reading up a lot lately. There's some interesting bikes out there if you're open to trying a folder.

[Chris Jeggo]

I have a Chameleon but have never ridden a Joey so cannot compare. One difference which may matter to you is that there is a much wider range of tyre sizes available for the Joey than the Chameleon.

[PH]

IMHO the Joey, Birdy and bike Friday are the best folders for touring and riding on. Former is straight two frame size off the peg a

EDIT - Corrected below
The Joey? That's only made in one size, nominally 54cm, but it's adjustable enough to suit most.

[rotavator]

IMHO the Joey, Birdy and bike Friday are the best folders for touring and riding on. Former is straight two frame size off the peg a

The Joey? That's only made in one size, nominally 54cm, but it's adjustable enough to suit most.

If you look at Airnimal's website you will see that there are two frame sizes with the Joey monicker:
1. Joey S 47 cm
2, Joey 54 cm endurance plus which can also fit 26" tyres

There is contradictory, presumably out of date, information on Spa's website.

[PH]

IMHO the Joey, Birdy and bike Friday are the best folders for touring and riding on. Former is straight two frame size off the peg a

The Joey? That's only made in one size, nominally 54cm, but it's adjustable enough to suit most.

If you look at Airnimal's website you will see that there are two frame sizes with the Joey monicker:
1. Joey S 47 cm
2, Joey 54 cm endurance plus which can also fit 26" tyres

There is contradictory, presumably out of date, information on Spa's website.

I stand corrected, my knowledge is also out of date, I assume the "S" is a recent addition, there was certainly only the one size when I was looking for another a couple of years ago.

[Si]

I really enjoyed riding my chameleon on commutes, club rides, audaxes etc. It was as quick as any other audax bike I've had, and very comfortable. It carried moderate loads without trouble. Folding to get on the train was ok, but no where near as easy as my brommie, bit more of a faff than my birdy as the front wheel needed removing, but on the other hand, the chain didn't fall off like thebirdy , and a bit more of a faff than my tern.

Chameleon was certainly more comfortable and faster than my brommie, birdys or tern.

As previously related, my main issue with it was that the frames kept breaking. There were issues with the early ones, which I hope they have now fixed but after the third one broke I lost confidence.

Never tried a Joey. Considered one but went for the tern instead as it was considerably cheaper and came with plenty of kit such as dynamo lighting, rack and mudguards, built in pump, etc. I would imagine the Joey is slightly quicker.

To answer to op's q2, I would be interested in a 20 inch Joey.....but if the issues with the chameleon frames was sorted then I'd rather have a chameleon.

[horizon]

Just to say that I do now think the wheel size is critical and that for most people that should be the first consideration. IMV 24" wheels are significantly bigger than 20" when it comes to carrying the bike in a crowded bus station for example. I've now acquired the 20" wheel Tern to enable me to use it on buses (i.e. not coaches). A couple of points:

1. The 24" Tern rides like a normal bike and it wouldn't surprise me if the Airnimals do too.
2. 20" folders (I've now experienced both a Tern and a Dahon) also ride unexpectedly well, even fully loaded or even perhaps better fully loaded).
3. I've never had an issue with getting my 24" Tern on a train (20" is the supposed limit) but I reckon getting it on the underground might be more challenging.
4. I don't see the point of a Brompton.
5. Tern would be my starting point but I would have liked to have owned a Joey.
6. Folding bikes have come a long way IMV.

[horizon]

PH wrote:
I have a Joey which ... It's been folded and travelled with me by coach through Europe and the UK

That's really interesting. I haven't pushed using my 24" Tern in these situations but sometimes the fact that something folds is enough for most officials. I still don't think I could be sure of getting a 24" on a local bus (at least not every time and with luggage and with two of us!) but I would be happy to be proved wrong.