Air Pollution - Will They Act Now?

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mjr
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Re: Air Pollution - Will They Act Now?

Post by mjr »

Paulatic wrote: 29 Apr 2022, 10:30am
Psamathe wrote: 28 Apr 2022, 11:28pm
For me the results are not surprising given the levels on rural woodburning. Village where I live breaks the limits for particulates primarily generated by woodburning stoves.

Ian
Can’t be that simple though can it? I’m surrounded by wood and coal burners and yet
Maybe wood burning stoves are being used to distract us from bigger pollution sources, such as combustion transport? Do local and national government happen to use combustion vehicles much, perchance? Do their elected leaders?
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Jdsk
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Re: Air Pollution - Will They Act Now?

Post by Jdsk »

mjr wrote: 11 May 2022, 10:40am Do local and national government happen to use combustion vehicles much, perchance? Do their elected leaders?
There's a hat that does...

Image

Jonathan
Mark R
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Re: Air Pollution - Will They Act Now?

Post by Mark R »

Maybe wood burning stoves are being used to distract us from bigger pollution sources, such as combustion transport? Do local and national government happen to use combustion vehicles much, perchance? Do their elected leaders?
Sounds like air pollution denial combined with a heavy dose of whataboutery!

Residential areas away from busy roads and industry should not have unhealthy air pollution levels . The one reason they have is the unfortunate woodburner fad.

edit - actually that's not quite true - idiots burning rubbish in their gardens is the other major air pollution blind spot - passive smoking anyone?

Where I live in North Devon the quality of life should be pleasant enough. As it is my children's sleeping room regularly smells of wood smoke (or worse still bonfire smoke). It wasn't like this 7 years ago when we moved in. Over the last few years a small handful of people have decided to start burning wood and the air quality has got trashed as a result.

Retrofitting a woodburner in a residential area is an antisocial act (...and burning waste in an urban garden is IMO on a par with leaving dog faeces in a playground) - it degrades the quality of life for those around you. The point needs driving home again and again because air pollution denial is apparently still common.
Psamathe
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Re: Air Pollution - Will They Act Now?

Post by Psamathe »

mjr wrote: 11 May 2022, 10:40am
Paulatic wrote: 29 Apr 2022, 10:30am
Psamathe wrote: 28 Apr 2022, 11:28pm
For me the results are not surprising given the levels on rural woodburning. Village where I live breaks the limits for particulates primarily generated by woodburning stoves.

Ian
Can’t be that simple though can it? I’m surrounded by wood and coal burners and yet
Maybe wood burning stoves are being used to distract us from bigger pollution sources, such as combustion transport? Do local and national government happen to use combustion vehicles much, perchance? Do their elected leaders?
Some research
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/may/07/fireplaces-and-stoves-are-bigger-polluters-than-traffic wrote:Fireplaces and stoves are bigger polluters than traffic
Fireplaces and stoves are now the largest single source of primary particle pollution in the UK, greater than traffic and industry. About 40% of the UK’s primary particle pollution comes from just 7% of homes that burn solid fuel. Will the new ban on sales of coal and wet wood in England help the problem or risk making it worse?
...
Ian
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mjr
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Re: Air Pollution - Will They Act Now?

Post by mjr »

Psamathe wrote: 15 May 2022, 4:30pm
mjr wrote: 11 May 2022, 10:40am
Paulatic wrote: 29 Apr 2022, 10:30am

Can’t be that simple though can it? I’m surrounded by wood and coal burners and yet
Maybe wood burning stoves are being used to distract us from bigger pollution sources, such as combustion transport? Do local and national government happen to use combustion vehicles much, perchance? Do their elected leaders?
Some research
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/may/07/fireplaces-and-stoves-are-bigger-polluters-than-traffic wrote:Fireplaces and stoves are bigger polluters than traffic
Fireplaces and stoves are now the largest single source of primary particle pollution in the UK, greater than traffic and industry. About 40% of the UK’s primary particle pollution comes from just 7% of homes that burn solid fuel. Will the new ban on sales of coal and wet wood in England help the problem or risk making it worse?
...
Ian
Note that report lumps dirty coal and coke and much else in with wood, plus is limited to primary particle pollution.

Also, most reports contradict it and say traffic is the biggest contributor in general pollution.

I'm not saying wood burning isn't a problem, but that I suspect it is being exploited to distract people from tackling traffic pollution.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Mick F
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Re: Air Pollution - Will They Act Now?

Post by Mick F »

How else can we heat our home?
Yes, we have lecky, but no gas and the oil suppliers can't supply oil.
We have two acres of woodland, and we have an endless supply of firewood in the valley. The trees keep growing and bits fall off them. Cut them up and log 'em. I'm good at it! :D

Burn it and produce heat and hot water please.
Mick F. Cornwall
Jdsk
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Re: Air Pollution - Will They Act Now?

Post by Jdsk »

Mick F wrote: 15 May 2022, 5:42pm How else can we heat our home?
Yes, we have lecky, but no gas and the oil suppliers can't supply oil.
We have two acres of woodland, and we have an endless supply of firewood in the valley. The trees keep growing and bits fall off them.
We discussed this in December:
viewtopic.php?p=1661656#p1661656

and some of the helpful advice included drying the wood more thoroughly and wearing some clothes in the house if it needs to be heated.

But can I check if you think that the particulate emissions from woodturning stoves can be harmful to health?

Thanks

Jonathan
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Re: Air Pollution - Will They Act Now?

Post by Psamathe »

Mick F wrote: 15 May 2022, 5:42pm How else can we heat our home?
Yes, we have lecky, but no gas and the oil suppliers can't supply oil.
We have two acres of woodland, and we have an endless supply of firewood in the valley. The trees keep growing and bits fall off them. Cut them up and log 'em. I'm good at it! :D

Burn it and produce heat and hot water please.
Whilst I do have an oil take it's not ben refilled for years and my Central Heating system has been drained for several years. No wood burners, no gas. Just sometimes have a fan heater in the room I'm in (never have any heating in bedroom).

You can stay warm without woodburners, without gas and without oil.

Ian
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Mick F
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Re: Air Pollution - Will They Act Now?

Post by Mick F »

Of course you can stay warm.
Wear more clothes. Take someone to bed with you! :D
The issue is keeping the home dry and aired and warm.

Without heating, the home will become damp and mouldy, or it does in a couple of our rooms.
We don't all live in a house on a hill with a dry breeze able to blow through. Some of us live in a deep damp valley.
Mick F. Cornwall
Psamathe
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Re: Air Pollution - Will They Act Now?

Post by Psamathe »

Good news and bad news:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/feb/14/wood-burning-stoves-cancel-out-fall-particulate-pollution-uk-roads wrote:Wood-burning stoves cancel out fall in particulate pollution from UK roads, data shows
PM2.5 from heating homes using solid fuel such as wood increased by 19% from 2021 to 2022, data shows

A rise in harmful emissions from wood-burning stoves has cancelled out decreases in particulate pollution from road and energy sources in the UK, government data reveals.
...
Ian
Jdsk
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Re: Air Pollution - Will They Act Now?

Post by Jdsk »

I read the DEFRA statistics after that article:
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... -in-the-uk

I can't reconcile the second headline with those.

Screenshot 2024-02-14 at 12.37.13.png

Jonathan
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Re: Air Pollution - Will They Act Now?

Post by axel_knutt »

Psamathe wrote: 15 May 2022, 7:47pm Whilst I do have an oil take it's not ben refilled for years and my Central Heating system has been drained for several years. No wood burners, no gas. Just sometimes have a fan heater in the room I'm in (never have any heating in bedroom).

You can stay warm without woodburners, without gas and without oil.
I tried heating just one room with a fan heater between 2006 & 2010, and it cost the same as heating the whole house with gas central heating. It was also freezing cold, and the house became so damp that the plywood top on my coffee table delaminated.
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Re: Air Pollution - Will They Act Now?

Post by al_yrpal »

We have a multi fuel Clearview stove. We have taken to burning smokeless coal because wood burning is a lot of hassle. With coal the fire stays in until the afternoon of the next day. We ran out of kindling last week so I gathered some very small logs from the little cupboard in the garden where we had been storing potential kindling but it was obviously still a bit damp. So, I popped it into the lower oven of the Aga. By the next day it was really dry and when we lit the stove with a few pieces it burned very quickly with very little smoke. The ovens are hot all the time so its a no brainer.

Al
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mjr
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Re: Air Pollution - Will They Act Now?

Post by mjr »

axel_knutt wrote: 14 Feb 2024, 12:53pm
Psamathe wrote: 15 May 2022, 7:47pm Whilst I do have an oil take it's not ben refilled for years and my Central Heating system has been drained for several years. No wood burners, no gas. Just sometimes have a fan heater in the room I'm in (never have any heating in bedroom).

You can stay warm without woodburners, without gas and without oil.
I tried heating just one room with a fan heater between 2006 & 2010, and it cost the same as heating the whole house with gas central heating. It was also freezing cold, and the house became so damp that the plywood top on my coffee table delaminated.
That fan heater probably drew power as fast as the heat pump that heats my whole house (0.6-1.7kW when on, most of time), yet you don't have to tell the power network operator you're switching to fan heaters and there are no scare stories about fan heaters breaking the grid.

I wonder if heat pumps are reducing pollution from fossil burners as well as making backup wood stoves used less often.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Re: Air Pollution - Will They Act Now?

Post by Biospace »

There a big problem with the numbers who have begun burning solid fuel within the last couple of decades, who live on the gas and electricity grids in built-up areas.

With the rise in energy prices this form of heating has grown even more appealing, but without legislation banning their use (which is possible but could provoke a massive backlash) the solution would appear to be making electricity sufficiently cheap that people prefer to invest in heat pumps.
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