Cycling UK Forum

Psamathe wrote:When I took up cycling again I found cycling round my local area actually meant I learnt the local area, all the small back roads and it was only after a few years that my routes "settled down" - and in some respects that became a bit more boring (always knowing what was round the next corner). Just setting out and making a decision at each junction can be good fun.

Ian

I sometimes use cycle.travel to help with the boredom of well-traveled local roads by using its option to create a local circular route, and being careful not to look at it too closely before setting off. Creates a homemade mystery tour.

Jdsk wrote:But are you genuinely not aware of the disadvantages of paper maps?

Thanks

Jonathan

Indeed. For the OS 1:50k series, the scale most likely to be used by road cyclists, and by comparison with equivalent products from peer national mapping agencies in Europe, the practical shortcomings include bulk, the perverse folding system, the size of a folded sheet, the scale (no 1:100K alternative), the card covers, weather resistance and general durability. (These shortcomings aren't unique to cyclists - there's a broadly similar set for hillwalkers with the 1:25k series, which is why many prefer Harvey's Mountain Maps).

But for cyclists of course there are practical disadvantages also in relying on an electronic device. Whether a paper map or an electronic device is preferable depends on the individual and the circumstances. And of course it doesn't have to be either/or. For me, the occasions when, carrying a paper map alone, I've wished for an electronic device have been outnumbered by the occasions when, carrying an electronic device alone, I've wished for a paper map.

That's how I'd do it... individual familiarisation with all of the options followed by explicit listing of their advantages and disadvantages.

Jonathan

A quick note, I use my phone and when eyes tired an iPad.

Hi , all I didn’t want to get too heavy, disadvantages of a paper map (I have many) , i can’t remember more than a couple of turns, have to stop , retrieve map, read, start again etc etc. Sat nav use is great, I wont ever be in an area where my life is at risk if it fails and have no intention of trying to become a global traveler. Riding a route someone else has posted with a review is far easier, going off piste if I wish, but I can concentrate on enjoying the ride. I don’t want to spend hours planning routes on an os map, near me so many routes have changed/closed/or are unrideable etc it takes time for OS to catch up.

MIB2020 wrote:...wondering what you all think before I spend my hard earned cash...

I can get by with the free versions OK, planning and following a course software evolves and there are quite a few that you don't have to pay for that may do what you need. Many of us will have our personal favourites; you'll generally find one that you like then only change when one you get frustrated when one of the free features that you have been enjoying is moved to their premium version that you then have to pay for. Popular course planning software that all have a free version include Komoot.com, mapmyride.com, alltrails.com, ridewithgps.com, as well as Garmin Connect.

I currently use the free version of alltrails.com (was GPSies) to create the course and add to my old Garmin 810 via usb, unlike Garmin connect their software navigates roundabouts and one streets correctly as the former shares routing with runners so may not; overriding these on route can be annoying for both rider and GPS unit, if frequent enough the latter may even crash; annoying the rider even more! I've found alltrails.com quite user friendly, a course is intuitive to plan, then edit if needed. The user experience is very similar one of the most popular which is ridewithgps but with the added bonus that you can add your own notes in the form of a 'waypoint'; like 'café', 'bikeshop', a feature that is currently no longer free with ridewithgps; hence my switch to Alltrails. One handy feature I like is you can toggle between 'hiking-cycling-driving' when creating, so you can switch to 'hiking' if you want to take a shortcut over a footbridge for example then back to driving if you want to stay on roads. There are two cycle focused modes, 'Bike touring' may include a smooth trail where as 'Road biking' will be on paved roads and paths that support bicycle access.

Cheers Paul

Hi Paul, just tried AllTrails but it seems I am unable to download a route to send to my Garmin without payment.
Will try the other one you mentioned next.
Thanks again.

Best route planning app - your brain.

MIB2020 wrote:Hi Paul, just tried AllTrails but it seems I am unable to download a route to send to my Garmin without payment.
Will try the other one you mentioned next.
Thanks again.

I'm definitely a free member, assume you joined their site and logged in?

I use a laptop with Windows 10 to 'plan' - 'create map' - 'save map' before 'download'. I've added a screen shot of how I 'download' my saved map as below, my 'red arrow' highlights the 'three dots', click on those dots, 'download map' and the 'download route' box will open; I personally save as ' Garmin course TCX' especially if I have made waypoints, this method means on my Garmin 810 as I reach the waypoint I get an audible tone alert in addition to a visual description tab pop up

After 'Download' to my computer I then 'Upload' it to my 810 via USB and genuine Garmin lead (make sure it is the genuine lead, copies that seem to fit perfectly may not transfer the data fully) and not via Bluetooth. In theory a saved course on your computer can be imported into Garmin Connect (GC), but I have found when you then send that to the unit via Bluetooth they are inclined to not always transfer the data as created and be less stable in use and often crash during navigation. The only courses I send to the unit from GC have been created in GC, I've had my 810 Garmin since 2013 and although GC has improved it has been consistently behind other free course planning software.

It is a shame that GC route planning is so poor, as I referenced upthread going off course to stay legal at roundabouts and one way streets can also cause the unit to crash; I live in a London Suburb so that is quite a common issue for me when riding locally. Back in 2013 they made a big thing about Bluetooth connectivity which was free feature with GC and normally a paid for feature with other route planning sites; with my 'Sherlock Smith Deerstalker Helmet' on I am deducing that's what "MIB2020" maybe referring to when he mentions “I am unable to download a route to send to my Garmin without payment”?

Over the years what has personally worked for me to achieve reliability and stability is to download the course from whatever site I created it on and then uploading via USB; I never use Bluetooth or upload it to another site before sending it to the unit. Even if it is a workaround to upload a well planned course which was then stable enough for my liking; I wouldn't need to do if Garmin Connect route planning was as good as it should be; with their financial clout it has always baffled me that it isn't!!!

Thanks Paul, the screen looks very different on my phone or iPad , will have another look.
I am being drawn to Kamoot they are offering me world wide mapping for life for £20 and there seems to be loads of people adding routes every day, within 20 miles if my location alone.

Forgot to mention, I purchased the Garmin Edge explore as the Bluetooth function allows me to use my phone, not to have to use a computer. Sorry to mention this again but I detest the things, for personal reasons, not because I am stupid . If I could afford someone to put routes in my Garmin I would pay

MIB2020 wrote:Thanks Paul, the screen looks very different on my phone or iPad , will have another look.
I am being drawn to Kamoot they are offering me world wide mapping for life for £20 and there seems to be loads of people adding routes every day, within 20 miles if my location alone.

I have used both and the routes that Komoot makes are generally on busier roads than cycle.travel. If you're touring Komoot doesn't let you load your own POI's whereas planning in cycle.travel and using Osmand on an android phone you can. Osmand is difficult to learn and Komoot is definitely slicker and with it's own app a far more integrated a solution but just not as good. The Komoot app has poor turn signals whereas Osmand is clearer. Osmand has clearer mapping.
Get both and try.

Thanks Climo, I am more keen on downloading and following routes posted by others. I cycle for leisure it’s not my whole world so don’t really want to spend much time planning, have many other interests to keep me busy.

MIB2020 wrote:Thanks Climo, I am more keen on downloading and following routes posted by others. I cycle for leisure it’s not my whole world so don’t really want to spend much time planning, have many other interests to keep me busy.

Then Komoot. It's pretty seamless. From memory you can still plan in cycle.travel and import into Komoot.