How oh how do you get a lockring off?

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pwa
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by pwa »

I've never broken a chain whip, probably because I started using them just as screw-on freewheels were going out and cassettes lock rings were coming in. And as I don't go blue in the face putting lock rings on, they come off easily and my chain whips last indefinitely.
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Mick F
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by Mick F »

If we had a "like button" I would press it! :D
Mick F. Cornwall
Brucey
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by Brucey »

tatanab wrote:Late 60s/early 70s my local shop sold the lever and you added your own chain. Here it is with a piece of 1/8 chain that has been on there about 50 years. 1/8 is handy, even now, because it can be used with any width of sprocket.


1/8" chain won't quite fit between sprockets on a close-ratio cassette/freewheel in every case. This needn't stop you with a cassette/lockring, because you can always use the largest sprocket. 1/8" chain also fits on close-spaced mid-cluster sprockets provided the interval is at least 3T, so the chain can overhang the neighbouring sprocket if required.

FWIW the style of chainwhip shown applies a high reaction load to one tooth only. This is unlikely to be a problem with cassettes but I have seen tight freewheel sprockets that have broken because the load was too high on that one tooth.

cheers
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thirdcrank
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by thirdcrank »

I need somebody to remind me what chain whips were used for, before the arrival of freehubs. They don't seem to serve much purpose in fitting a freewheel and even less removing one. I can think of removing fixed-wheel sprockets or trying to disassemble screw-together freewheels (pre-splines.)

I'm partly prompted to ask this by remembering that some freewheels with splined sprockets used the smallest as a lockring and I had the bright idea of switching between sizes depending on anticipated terrain. That last a couple of rides till I changed onto my 13T lockring/sprocket - going downhill so no big pedalling force - and it crumbled.
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Mick F
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by Mick F »

I used the pair of mine to remove and replace individual sprockets on my 6sp Suntour unit. Later 7sp.
Having moved house a few times and needed a different set of ratios ......... bigger ones usually! ........ and to replace the worn smaller ones, I needed two chainwhips to unscrew the cogs.

Smaller end was screwed and bigger end was splined and all cogs could be bought individually. Bike shops had a big board with all the vast variety of cogs on display. Size and position made the fitting different, so if you needed a (say) 18t cog, it could come as small screwed, big screwed, small splined or big splined.
Mick F. Cornwall
tatanab
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by tatanab »

thirdcrank wrote:I need somebody to remind me what chain whips were used for, before the arrival of freehubs.
Removing fixed wheel sprockets. Stripping sprockets from freewheels where one or more (possibly all) sprockets were screwed on. Days when we went into a bike shop and assembled multiple freewheels to our own taste
Brucey
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by Brucey »

thirdcrank wrote:I need somebody to remind me what chain whips were used for, before the arrival of freehubs. They don't seem to serve much purpose in fitting a freewheel and even less removing one. I can think of removing fixed-wheel sprockets or trying to disassemble screw-together freewheels (pre-splines.)

I'm partly prompted to ask this by remembering that some freewheels with splined sprockets used the smallest as a lockring and I had the bright idea of switching between sizes depending on anticipated terrain. That last a couple of rides till I changed onto my 13T lockring/sprocket - going downhill so no big pedalling force - and it crumbled.


IME it is possible for a chain whip to break a sprocket if that sprocket is very tight and the chainwhip exerts a huge load on one tooth or something. However threaded top sprockets do occasionally just break anyway, whether they are disturbed or not; IME it is the most likely sprocket to break in many freewheel designs.

In some freewheels the smallest sprockets overhang the lockring such that you cannot access the freewheel bearing adjustment unless the final sprockets are removed from the freewheel; chainwhips required.

Beyond the simple issue of the thing unscrewing itself before it sees much use, there is something to be said for tightening both freewheels and fixed sprockets onto a hub using a chain whip; this gives a controlled torque, whereas if they left to tighten themselves in service, they are (IME) more likely to become overtightened. I suspect the difference is because of the way sticking friction works (vs dynamic friction) ; the breakaway torque is always higher than the tightening torque; this always works against you when you removing the thing, but it can work for you too in that a carefully tightened freewheel may not move in service but will come off at a lower torque than it might otherwise.

cheers
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Mick F
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by Mick F »

I had a Suntour freewheel with six cogs. Used a two-dog tool in the bench vice to remove it.
Later, upgraded to a better Suntour and had seven cogs. The outer of the six was threaded on the outside so you could screw on a smaller cog outboard. The unit used a four-dog tool.

I still have the old (two-dog) freewheel and some of the cogs, including the double unit for the outer cogs. Most of what I had, was assembled as a 6sp and donated to a friend who needed new bits for his Raleigh. Still have both the two-dog and the four-dog tools.

Last used the two-dog to remove the 5sp Regina freewheel off Marjorie Dawes. Probably the first time it had been off the hub since 1979, and it came off ok. Bench vice with the tool held on by the wheel nut.
Mick F. Cornwall
gregoryoftours
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by gregoryoftours »

To the OP, I'm glad you cracked it! Pebble and 531Colin, I like your methods and setup. I've got one of those decathlon tools discussed up thread, it's good value, well made and pretty substantial, works well and is very secure but I hardly ever reach for it, as I always find it fiddly to locate all 3 pegs on the sprocket. It's perfectly doable, but usually I'd have the lockring off with a normal chainwhip in the time it takes to fit this tool.
Marcus Aurelius
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by Marcus Aurelius »

Image

Image

Image

Job jobbed.
julianm
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by julianm »

The mention of the board full of sprockets reminded me of those days & I managed to find a picture:
sprok.jpg


It would make a nice addition to a bike display these days.
tatanab
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by tatanab »

julianm wrote:The mention of the board full of sprockets reminded me of those days & I managed to find a picture.
It is still possible to assemble your own cassette these days. Miche do complete boards of sprockets e.g 10 speed Shimano fithttps://thecycleclinic.co.uk/product ... 28a0&_ss=r
15756351622186169521412727144351_17327ef3-5062-43b9-a2a2-8a223a750d8b_large.jpg
thirdcrank
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by thirdcrank »

I'm familiar with sprocket boards; both those illustrated are for splined freewheels, the America having a sprocket which doubles as a lockring.

Earlier types had all screw-on sprockets - as I'm sure many of the posters above know from experience. When I asked to be reminded about uses for chain whips I wrote "... trying to disassemble screw-together freewheels (pre-splines.)" and for a reason. IIRC, a Regina 5 speed' two largest sprockets screwed onto the back of the block anti-clockwise, the next two screwed onto the front clockwise, and the smallest screwed into its neighbour. I wrote "trying to disassemble" because my memory is that this was a futile gesture. It sounds as though others had more success.

As an aside, I have two genuine Regina splined removers. I had to buy the second because the first was so poorly made it wouldn't fit into the splines in the body.
tatanab
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by tatanab »

thirdcrank wrote:I'm familiar with sprocket boards; both those illustrated are for splined freewheels.
The Miche board is for Shimano splined cassettes, not freewheels. Also available in Campag spline.

I too remember the hassle of breaking down Regina freewheels in the 60s/70s with all threaded sprockets. My local shop had the standard board of Regina sprockets and I think just about everybody used 5 speed. I took to using Suntour about 1980. From a shop closing, I had a collection of about 50 Suntour sprockets just a couple of years ago. It was problematic finding anybody interested in taking them off me.
thirdcrank
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by thirdcrank »

tatanab wrote:... The Miche board is for Shimano splined cassettes, not freewheels. Also available in Campag spline.

I too remember the hassle of breaking down Regina freewheels in the 60s/70s with all threaded sprockets. My local shop had the standard board of Regina sprockets and I think just about everybody used 5 speed. I took to using Suntour about 1980. From a shop closing, I had a collection of about 50 Suntour sprockets just a couple of years ago. It was problematic finding anybody interested in taking them off me.


"My bad" as they seem to say these days. I was so keen to talk about screwed -together freewheels that I was loose with my language.

My own stocking-up came in the early 90s when bigger retailers were clearing out their stock of 6 speed freewheels. I still have plenty hiding in the garage. It seems hard to believe now that if I intended heading out towards the Vale of York I'd fit a 13-18T or 13-28T heading into the hillier places in the other direction with some with 21T or 24T largest sprocket for places in between.

I'm reminded of them whenever anybody offers a load for sale, but inertia sets in.
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