Hi all. Last year I converted my Carrera Subway 2 into a single speed with drop bars and I absolutely love the way it rides.
As it has MTB dic brakes I purchased some Tektro 520 brake levers, as these have the same cable pull as MTB levers.
To give me a bit of extra flexibility I am looking to add gears, ideally a 1 x drivetrain effectively turning it into a gravel bike.I have been doing my homework as to what my options are.
I could buy some 2nd hand brifters for it but this would mean buying road bike brake calipers (i use BB7s on my road bike and they are ace!).
I have also considered buying a cheap 8s MTB shifter (Altus M310) and then adapting the bracket to fit the 31.8mm diameter I have measured on my bars (I have got a 31.8mm braze on adaptor clamp for a front mech that I could potentially use).
I have a spare 8s cassette and shimano tourney rear mech - I understand that the mech will work with any shimano 6-10s cassettes all they have the same 1.7 actuation ratio?
I have come across this:
https://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/componen ... OvEALw_wcB.
The question is, what extra will I need to buy? I suspect that I would need a 9s cassette as its indexed and 9s has a different cog spacing? although it will cost extra I can see that 9s cassettes offer a great range of ratios
I want to keep costs down as low as possible which is why I am asking for advice first.
If its a ludicrous idea then please let me know also!
Bar end shifter - will this work? am I mad?
Re: Bar end shifter - will this work? am I mad?
It sounds like a good plan overall, keeping your existing and satisfactory braking system. If you have never used a bar end lever before, they are relatively simple to install but you may want to cut 2 or 3 cm off the end of the bar first, so that the lever doesn't interfere with your knees. If you are someone who has their hands on that bottom edge of the bars a lot it may not suit you, but if, like me, you never put your hands there, it won't.
A 9 speed shifter will work with an 8 speed mech, but you will need a 9 speed cassette. You may need replacement 9 speed jockey wheels for the mech, and a 9 speed chain. But you will be needing a longer chain anyway, so making it 9 rather than 8 won't cost you much.
I prefer to have my gear cable from the bar end lever escaping from the bar tape as soon as possible, within a couple of cm of the lever body, so, seen from the side, it emerges horizontally, curves gracefully inwards towards the wheel, and arcs downwards towards the "stop" where downtube levers would be. The "stop" is one of those silver Shimano jobbies with a barrel adjuster to refine cable tension. The whole cable run to that point has no sharp bends and has very low friction.
A 9 speed shifter will work with an 8 speed mech, but you will need a 9 speed cassette. You may need replacement 9 speed jockey wheels for the mech, and a 9 speed chain. But you will be needing a longer chain anyway, so making it 9 rather than 8 won't cost you much.
I prefer to have my gear cable from the bar end lever escaping from the bar tape as soon as possible, within a couple of cm of the lever body, so, seen from the side, it emerges horizontally, curves gracefully inwards towards the wheel, and arcs downwards towards the "stop" where downtube levers would be. The "stop" is one of those silver Shimano jobbies with a barrel adjuster to refine cable tension. The whole cable run to that point has no sharp bends and has very low friction.
Re: Bar end shifter - will this work? am I mad?
it is a 9s shifter which (in this case) means that it will work with a shimano 6-9s mech and a shimano-spaced 9s cassette. If you want to use an 8s cassette you need an 8s shifter not a 9s one.
FWIW it isn't very difficult to mount a bar end shifter somewhere other than the bar end; all you need to do is to create a bracket which includes a short length of suitable tube. However if you are doing this then you can likewise create a mounting for a flat bar shifter instead, if you want.
BTW I quite like the SunRace shifters but the indexed ones in the R series (and all the similar looking SA IGH shifters) all have the same problem, which is 'sticky backlash'. This means that if you want the gears to run smoothly (following a downshift) you need to move the lever against the detent having moved it the other way to make the downshift. If you can live with that they are good shifters, but if you can't, it might drive you scatty.
As it happens you might be better off with a SunRace LH shifter; this includes a 'powershift' type ratchet and it just so happens that two clicks = 2.8mm cable pull which is as near as dammit the cable pull in shimano 8s. So you can use this to make 'semi-indexed' shifting; friction on upshifts and two clicks = one shift on downshifts.
hth
cheers
FWIW it isn't very difficult to mount a bar end shifter somewhere other than the bar end; all you need to do is to create a bracket which includes a short length of suitable tube. However if you are doing this then you can likewise create a mounting for a flat bar shifter instead, if you want.
BTW I quite like the SunRace shifters but the indexed ones in the R series (and all the similar looking SA IGH shifters) all have the same problem, which is 'sticky backlash'. This means that if you want the gears to run smoothly (following a downshift) you need to move the lever against the detent having moved it the other way to make the downshift. If you can live with that they are good shifters, but if you can't, it might drive you scatty.
As it happens you might be better off with a SunRace LH shifter; this includes a 'powershift' type ratchet and it just so happens that two clicks = 2.8mm cable pull which is as near as dammit the cable pull in shimano 8s. So you can use this to make 'semi-indexed' shifting; friction on upshifts and two clicks = one shift on downshifts.
hth
cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: Bar end shifter - will this work? am I mad?
Hi both, thanks so much for the detailed replies. If I a go with the bar end shifter then I will definately take you advice on mounting and cable runs. I also have plenty of 8s and 10s chain links so the chain issue isn't really a problem.
Its interesting what you say Brucey about it being easy to mount a bar end shifter elsewhere by simply making a bracket. Probably spend most of my time on the hoods and not a massive amount on the drops so this is tempting, but this then raises another dilema: I could use an 8s MTB shifter instead which would cost a lot less (£10 - £15 for an Altus m310 which has a bracket the could be easily adapted). I could then avoid buying a cassette but would be stuck with 11-32t rather than something like 11-36t.
Whichever option I go for, your replies have reassured me that this is a doable project. I will be sure to post some pics of the finished product.
Thanks once again.
Its interesting what you say Brucey about it being easy to mount a bar end shifter elsewhere by simply making a bracket. Probably spend most of my time on the hoods and not a massive amount on the drops so this is tempting, but this then raises another dilema: I could use an 8s MTB shifter instead which would cost a lot less (£10 - £15 for an Altus m310 which has a bracket the could be easily adapted). I could then avoid buying a cassette but would be stuck with 11-32t rather than something like 11-36t.
Whichever option I go for, your replies have reassured me that this is a doable project. I will be sure to post some pics of the finished product.
Thanks once again.
Re: Bar end shifter - will this work? am I mad?
Brucey wrote:
As it happens you might be better off with a SunRace LH shifter; this includes a 'powershift' type ratchet and it just so happens that two clicks = 2.8mm cable pull which is as near as dammit the cable pull in shimano 8s. So you can use this to make 'semi-indexed' shifting; friction on upshifts and two clicks = one shift on downshifts.
hth
cheers
Hi have just found a thread that you started on 15th December about powershift options. I am having a good read of this and it could mean that I can do the whole transformation for about £30. Hadn't really considered this option until now so thanks
Re: Bar end shifter - will this work? am I mad?
the sunrace powershifter happens to work in a semi-indexed way on shimano 8s (or the shortened 9-from-10s cassette with a 4700/GRX/11s mech as per the other thread). But that is only because the shifts each require 2.8mm cable pull which is exactly two clicks on the shifter.
If you use the same shifter with other setups it'll usually work (being a friction shifter), but following each downshift, a certain amount of trimming will be required, which is kind of annoying.
Where the sunrace bar-end shifter also won't work so well is if the total cable pull required is more than the shifter can deliver. But you should be OK with 8s I think; you normally get ~17 clicks with a BE shifter, of which you only need about 14.
The same lever gives ~18 clicks on a thumbshifter mount, and (IIRC) it is slightly less expensive to buy too.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-shifters/sunrace-m90-friction-thumbshifter-left-hand/
cheers
If you use the same shifter with other setups it'll usually work (being a friction shifter), but following each downshift, a certain amount of trimming will be required, which is kind of annoying.
Where the sunrace bar-end shifter also won't work so well is if the total cable pull required is more than the shifter can deliver. But you should be OK with 8s I think; you normally get ~17 clicks with a BE shifter, of which you only need about 14.
The same lever gives ~18 clicks on a thumbshifter mount, and (IIRC) it is slightly less expensive to buy too.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-shifters/sunrace-m90-friction-thumbshifter-left-hand/
cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: Bar end shifter - will this work? am I mad?
Chris56 wrote:Its interesting what you say Brucey about it being easy to mount a bar end shifter elsewhere by simply making a bracket. Probably spend most of my time on the hoods and not a massive amount on the drops so this is tempting
Like you I spend virtually all my time on the hoods but I find that my hand falls very naturally to the position of my bar end shifters. I have used them on my Moulton, which is my most frequently used bike, for over 30 years and love them. I haven't cut the bars down at all and position works perfectly for me. So I would suggest that if you do fit them try them with your bars as they are before cutting.
Ian
Re: Bar end shifter - will this work? am I mad?
I run something similar on my Charge Mixer. Normally single speed, but occasionally I want a few gears for winter rides or gravel.
Because I swap between the two, I have the gear outer buried permanently under the bar tape, from the bar end shifter, and on the exit end I have an an inline gear adjuster. That allows me to take the rest of the outer away. (I run full length outers).
Then when I’m swapping between the two, swap the back wheel, chain. Whip the derailleur, and hanger on/off, Un clip the outer and pull out the inner with shifter and stick an end plug in. I even have reusable cable crimps.
Takes about 10 mins.
Basically if you going to swap between 1x and single speed. Recommend adding a inline adjuster and splitting the outer just after the par tape.
Because I swap between the two, I have the gear outer buried permanently under the bar tape, from the bar end shifter, and on the exit end I have an an inline gear adjuster. That allows me to take the rest of the outer away. (I run full length outers).
Then when I’m swapping between the two, swap the back wheel, chain. Whip the derailleur, and hanger on/off, Un clip the outer and pull out the inner with shifter and stick an end plug in. I even have reusable cable crimps.
Takes about 10 mins.
Basically if you going to swap between 1x and single speed. Recommend adding a inline adjuster and splitting the outer just after the par tape.
Re: Bar end shifter - will this work? am I mad?
Thanks once again. Re cutting the bars I will probably fit without cutting first and see if it catches my knee.
I have considered moving between SS and gravel. I did buy a bag full of inline adjusters a while ago so would do as suggested if I go down that route.
I have considered moving between SS and gravel. I did buy a bag full of inline adjusters a while ago so would do as suggested if I go down that route.
Re: Bar end shifter - will this work? am I mad?
iandusud wrote:Chris56 wrote:Its interesting what you say Brucey about it being easy to mount a bar end shifter elsewhere by simply making a bracket. Probably spend most of my time on the hoods and not a massive amount on the drops so this is tempting
Like you I spend virtually all my time on the hoods but I find that my hand falls very naturally to the position of my bar end shifters. I have used them on my Moulton, which is my most frequently used bike, for over 30 years and love them. I haven't cut the bars down at all and position works perfectly for me. So I would suggest that if you do fit them try them with your bars as they are before cutting.
Ian
Yep. The bike is better balanced with the conventional bar-end set up. When the shifters are placed centrally it creates an imbalance when removing a hand from the hoods. As a bar-end your hand is still guiding the bars at a roughly equal distance to the other. You could try to find a singular Kelly Take-Off to get the shifter by the brake lever or fashion something yourself.