Cycling UK Forum

Mick F wrote:

thirdcrank wrote: ............ At least, all I do in retirement is waffle on social media.

There we all are eh?

Except the likes of Baron Sumption, who can sit in the House of Lords and directly influence legislation. This seems particularly relevant if his entry in Wiki is correct - see link above - which says he thinks the accountability of legislators is important (my words.) A life peer is completely unaccountable in that sense.

Apparently I am welcome in Scotland. Just not today.

Six miles away.

Mrs Syd and I are both on semi-enforced leave this week with very little to do. Except wind each other up.

If I do get arrested soon it’s going to be for uxoricide! [emoji23]

thirdcrank wrote:Twenty three years since I retired.

On the subject of our learned friends and lockdown, there was an opinion piece in the Daily Telegraph by Baron Sumption recently, behind a paywall.

https://wiki2.org/en/Jonathan_Sumption,_Lord_Sumption

A top learned friend if ever there was. But he's retired too, at least from the Supreme Court.

The first part of his piece said pretty much same as I've said on here. In short that the police should enforce only the law, not government advice etc.

He then went on to give his own views on lockdowns in pandemics (he's not in favour) which seem to go way beyond his expertise as a lawyer and historian: ie he's not medically qualified. What makes this worse for me is that on appointment to the Supreme Court he was given a life peerage. Now, he's an unelected member of the legislature - House of Lords. At least, all I do in retirement is waffle on social media.

Yes Sumption was quoted as part of my interrogation. He initially attempted to gain the high ground by proclaiming he was a silk and questioned my ability to even engage with him. Chapeau!

The debate was similar to on here of late but replace how far you can cycle for exercise with how far you can drive. The answer is that you can drive as far as you want in England not just for exercise but for anything really. The FPN's getting dished out are unlawful and our learned friend has been offering to represent the victims of this police oppression for no absolutely no fee (notwithstanding no cases have actually been contested in court so he probably will never have to leave Chambers). The CPS have been reviewing every prosecution and binning quite a few but not all, my guess is the driving distance non payment cases are being quietly shelved.

On one of the lockdown threads IIRC when discussing the case of the two women in Derbyshire who received FPNs, later rescinded, for driving a short distance to take exercise, I said something along the lines that there were now senior police officers with little training in the law (I'm not going back to look what I actually said.) I had a - socially distanced - chat with a neighbour who retired from the police after 30 years service about 10 years ago. He reminded me that as Home Secretary, Teresa May introduced direct entry to the police at senior level for people with management experience in other spheres. I may be way out but I fancy that's how you end up with police posses issuing tickets willy-nilly.

Syd wrote:Mrs Syd and I are both on semi-enforced leave this week with very little to do. Except wind each other up.

If I do get arrested soon it’s going to be for uxoricide!

As I understand it lockdown means you are only allowed to leave the house for a number of specific 'essential' reasons, one of which is 'to escape domestic violence'.

So one or the other of you is free to leave if things get too much

thirdcrank wrote:On one of the lockdown threads IIRC when discussing the case of the two women in Derbyshire who received FPNs, later rescinded, for driving a short distance to take exercise, I said something along the lines that there were now senior police officers with little training in the law (I'm not going back to look what I actually said.) I had a - socially distanced - chat with a neighbour who retired from the police after 30 years service about 10 years ago. He reminded me that as Home Secretary, Teresa May introduced direct entry to the police at senior level for people with management experience in other spheres. I may be way out but I fancy that's how you end up with police posses issuing tickets willy-nilly.

Indeed direct entry to Inspector level nowadays. I won't ever forget the blood and sweat and tears (and of course two major examinations) over 27 odd years that made me even feel slightly qualified to attain the rank - ill health Intervened and the rest for me is consigned to history.

One thing I would add is that disinformation can be a useful tool on occasion for policing and this would appear to be the rhetoric being employed. On a personal level (and living in a tourist hotspot) I just want common sense but some people lack it.

Its no surprise then that the Chief Constables of Sussex, Hants, Dorset and D&C are willing to keep issuing FPN's despite the threat of litigation.

Not arrested, but my activity, walking along a road looking at houses with my torch at 2am in the morning, did attract the attention of a passing Police Officer, who pulled their car over to check what I was doing.

I had a legitimate reason for my actions, so quick explanation, all well and we each carried on with our jobs.

The early hours are very much quieter during Lockdown, and the have been numerous occasions when we've encountered Police Cars on the road and it's been evident they are giving us the once over.

Perhaps the most important legal training for police officers is an understanding of how the law works, especially since now the internet gives rapid access to the wording of individual statutes and regulations. Modernisation of the law has rendered unnecessary learning lists of felonies and misdemeanours and countless other offences with their own power of arrest. I completed my initial training knowing that two witnesses are necessary to prove perjury, not something you need to know out on patrol. Diseases of animals was another burden. In those days - 1967 - we learnt about Epizootic Lymphangitis (last UK case in 1906) and Glanders and Farcy from a bit later but not much. The point there being that with any major outbreak of an animal disease eg Foot and Mouth in 2001, new regulations are introduced for the purpose. Among my preparations for the inspectors' exam January 1971, I learnt by heart on the short train journey to the exam centre the powers of a circuit judge to impose an extended sentence on a repeat offender. That something a judge could read up in their own time. Anyway, it was first question on the crime paper 25% of the marks in the bag. I'd probably forgotten most of it by the time I got off the train home.

On the other hand, you need to know enough not to send out posses to enforce non-existent offences.

I'd agree that expert advice on the subject needs to be followed but English criminal law was not developed to enforce that. The lawyer has not been born who could devise the wording of a regulation to achieve it.