Cycling UK Forum

This happened to me 100km into a hilly 400km audax ride. I was carrying a spare cable but extracting the broken cable proved impossible at the roadside. Fortunately the bike had a triple chainset so I completed the event (just) in 3 speed mode. As a consequence my audax bike is now equiped with down-tube levers mounted on kelly take offs. Possibly an over-reation but cable replacement is a breeze. The broken cable was about 2 years old but had covered a few miles.

Regards



Thinking aloud you could clamp the cable under your bottle cage in an appropriate gear? !!!

Cheers James

I didn't think of that! Instead I tensioned the RD using a zip tie, re-tensioned for the hilly bits, replaced for the flat bits and so on - fortunately I had packed a few zip-ties!

if the remains of the cable can be knotted and secured (at the cable stop) so that the bare run on the DT is accessible, you can often set it so that you can have at least two rear gears; one set by the high stop screw (or a zip tie I suppose) with the cable slack, and the other accessed by pulling the cable sideways and hooking it over the bottle cage, or pump bracket or w.h.y.

cheers

Some previous versions of Campag Ergos had an early warning system for cable failure, where the failing cable poked through the hoods and stabbed you in the hand. They never perfected it and the time between the pain and the breakage wasn't always sufficient to finish the ride - and the pain of removing a broken cable is far worse than the warning - yes I speak from experience.
I've never used any Shimano drop bar levers, but the Campag ones I've used have had a lovely action (Other than the above) so there's nothing inherently wrong with cables not sticking up in the air.

Valbrona wrote:

Brucey wrote:In road triples, they kept the 'old' shift ratio even in the current generation of triple FDs, but not in doubles. This means that current Sora 9s doubles need a 'new style' FD, but triples can use an older FD without problems.

cheers

I think in the case of the OP, if he were to fit R3000 9 Speed Sora levers they would work with both the FD and the RD that he has previously been using with washing line (ST-R3500?) levers.

Can anyone please confirm?

OP here. That's the opposite to what I'm proposing. I haven't got washing lines now. At the moment I have R3000 Sora shifters on, triple left shifter. The FD is an old 9 speed 105 triple. It all works.

But I'm proposing putting older Soras on, the previous generation R3500. Which are "washing lines". Because:
a) I suspect they, and/or the cables, might last longer
b) They've got indicators.
c) I like slow gentle curves. As all four of my mistresses can confirm.

I've also got a pair of old Ultegras waiting to be fitted. But that's part of a different experiment.

Interweb tells me that old and new Sora levers are cross compatible with Sora RD and Triple FD. But the old Double FD needs st-3500 shifters, and the new Double FD has to matched with R3000 levers.

Brucey wrote:if you are sceptical, this may be because you have never had to remove a broken cable end from deep within a shifter, or seen a shifter break because of such a broken cable. To those who have seen either or both, 'lifeing' a cheap consumable like a cable inner makes perfect sense.

Remember that cables in shifters always violate design rules for near-infinite fatigue life, so it isn't a question of 'if' the inner cable will fail, merely a question of when.

FWIW cable inners break in DT and bar end shifters too; this happens less often, because few riders so equipped shift as frequently as with STIs. When the inner cable starts to fail in a DT lever or BE shifter, this commonly announces itself by the broken cable strands repeatedly stabbing you in the fingers.... nice....

cheers

I've done a few on shifters bought second hand, yes it can be a pain but that's because many people either don't set up the cables correctly or use cheap cables and/or simply never bother to check their cables. A few minutes of undoing the cable end at the RD and checking once a year is more than suffice for 99.999% of users.

In your example of someone changing out every 9 months, people having to change so frequently are either do something wrong or use inferior products whilst doing no maintenance or even changing under duress. Repeating the same mistakes, ignoring maintenance will keep on having the same problem, looking at what you might be doing wrong is going to save a decent amount of time and cost over the long run.

And let's be honest 150,000 shifts over 9 months could equate to 7500 miles or 150 x 50 mile rides, 800-1000 gear shifts on a 50 mile ride that's even a bit up and down are easily done, considering the number of shifts just in the course of approaching and departing a junction, a seemingly high number of shifts are really nothing out of the ordinary, changing a gear cable so often however is even with the hidden cable gear systems seems out of kilter.

PH wrote:Some previous versions of Campag Ergos had an early warning system for cable failure, where the failing cable poked through the hoods and stabbed you in the hand. They never perfected it and the time between the pain and the breakage wasn't always sufficient to finish the ride - and the pain of removing a broken cable is far worse than the warning - yes I speak from experience.
I've never used any Shimano drop bar levers, but the Campag ones I've used have had a lovely action (Other than the above) so there's nothing inherently wrong with cables not sticking up in the air.

Theoretically, tighter curves mean more friction, all else being equal. Concealing cables beneath bar tape inevitably means tighter curves, so on its own that will impede good, reliable shifting. In theory. The first system with concealed gear cables that I used was Campag 8 speed Ergos (Chorus), which worked but were really clunky. The Shimano 9 speed (Ultegra) STIs that I moved on to were better, buttery smooth and quiet, which at the time was generally thought to be partly down to the low friction of the washing lines. If the recent STIs are as good to use (and I can't comment on that because I no longer choose to use them) it has to be in spite of the tighter curves of the cable run. But if they work, they work.

The utility cyclist wrote:
In your example of someone changing out every 9 months, people having to change so frequently are either do something wrong or use inferior products whilst doing no maintenance or even changing under duress. Repeating the same mistakes, ignoring maintenance will keep on having the same problem, looking at what you might be doing wrong is going to save a decent amount of time and cost over the long run....

you are, in the instance I mentioned, quite mistaken of course.

My chum -who I would categorise as a non-cycling chum who resumed cycling to commute, and stacked up a high mileage in the process- initially thought he had duff cables, so he used examples of almost every cable brand (that does good quality polished stainless inners) and the exact same thing happened each time. If was only after the about the fourth (different brand) cable failure, and helping him pick the remains of the broken cable out of his STI (again) that I started to look more closely at what he was doing. The cables were well installed and well maintained, and any obvious problems in use weren't tolerated. Nor did he use great force on the shifters; shifts were made one at a time and not whilst using massive force on the pedals either. I went for a couple of rides with him on his usual commute and I immediately noticed he was changing gear far more often than pretty much anyone else I'd ever ridden with. He used a cassette with 1T intervals in the midrange and appeared to respond to the slightest change in road speed with a shift, often seeming to 'bounce' between gear ratios if you like (comparable with what pilots call 'phugoid oscillations', I'd say). He counted the number of shifts he made and I was absolutely staggered at the number, but it tallied with what I'd seen. The best estimate was in the region of 130000 shifts per 3000 miles, which is equivalent to about 40-odd shifts per mile, or about one shift every forty yards or so. So he was OK for about six months at a time, but very few cables made it to nine months (about 150000 shifts) without breaking.

If you bother to look up the design rules for wire rope installations, bicycle gear levers are way outside those which give good fatigue lives; basically the diameter of the sheaves (spools) is way too small in relation to the diameter (and internal construction) of the cable. To get really good fatigue life from gear cables would require sheaves of several inches diameter; it obviously ain't gonna happen that way; as I said upthread it isn't a question of 'if' so much as 'when' they are going to break; it is as inevitable as night following day.

My chum's shift rate is about five or ten times higher than my own; this explains why I've only ever broken a few gear cables, normally they get swapped out for other reasons well before they are likely to fail by fatigue. What I found interesting was that there was no real difference between cables, eg fibrax, shimano, and jagwire polished stainless inners all lasted about the same length of time, fatigue-wise.

Just a few days ago another chum reported that he'd broken a cable in his STI on his zwift/turbo bike. I think he's done about 15000 miles on that cable, and probably changes gear about as often as I do on the road, so it all makes sense.

When you have figured out that you may not have made 150000 shifts ever on any given bike, you may wish to reconsider your sloppy thinking and casual accusations.

mikeymo wrote:

Valbrona wrote:

Brucey wrote:In road triples, they kept the 'old' shift ratio even in the current generation of triple FDs, but not in doubles. This means that current Sora 9s doubles need a 'new style' FD, but triples can use an older FD without problems.

cheers

I think in the case of the OP, if he were to fit R3000 9 Speed Sora levers they would work with both the FD and the RD that he has previously been using with washing line (ST-R3500?) levers.

Can anyone please confirm?

OP here. That's the opposite to what I'm proposing. I haven't got washing lines now. At the moment I have R3000 Sora shifters on, triple left shifter. The FD is an old 9 speed 105 triple. It all works.

But I'm proposing putting older Soras on, the previous generation R3500. Which are "washing lines". Because:
a) I suspect they, and/or the cables, might last longer
b) They've got indicators.
c) I like slow gentle curves. As all four of my mistresses can confirm.

I've also got a pair of old Ultegras waiting to be fitted. But that's part of a different experiment.

Happy to swap your Sora for my tiagra 4500?!!

Cheers James

Jamesh wrote:

mikeymo wrote:

Valbrona wrote:
I think in the case of the OP, if he were to fit R3000 9 Speed Sora levers they would work with both the FD and the RD that he has previously been using with washing line (ST-R3500?) levers.

Can anyone please confirm?

OP here. That's the opposite to what I'm proposing. I haven't got washing lines now. At the moment I have R3000 Sora shifters on, triple left shifter. The FD is an old 9 speed 105 triple. It all works.

But I'm proposing putting older Soras on, the previous generation R3500. Which are "washing lines". Because:
a) I suspect they, and/or the cables, might last longer
b) They've got indicators.
c) I like slow gentle curves. As all four of my mistresses can confirm.

I've also got a pair of old Ultegras waiting to be fitted. But that's part of a different experiment.

Happy to swap your Sora for my tiagra 4500?!!

Cheers James

No way, I'm hanging on to all this stuff! I'll take them off your hands if you like though.

I'll recognise you when your riding through Ikley with three sets of Sti attached to your bars!!!!

Cheers James

I had a Sora R3000 double LH lever paired to an ST-3500 double FD … not realizing they are non-compatible (having only done one test ride of ~10 miles, all probably on the small chainring).

I didn't notice any non-compatibility on the workstand, but the longer actuation arm on an R3000 FD is a kind of giveaway.

That's another £30 I've had to fork out.

The "washing line" shifters are better in terms of cable life and maintenance. Uglier though. The cable routing is straight into the shifter, rather than the torturous bend on the newer shifters. Cables break more predictably at the button rather than 1" in.

Best to do away with the pesky cables.....
No washing lines, no cable beneath the bar tape.
Routing is straight, operation, well, it takes some practice.
Explanation here...
https://mariposabicycles.ca/blog/2016/0 ... s-roubaix/

Jamesh wrote:I'll recognise you when your riding through Ikley with three sets of Sti attached to your bars!!!!

Cheers James

Along with 5 RDs and 3 FDs. I'm on track to have the last remaining functioning 9 speed triple in the world. If I live to 150!