During the recent Jeremy Clarkson tirade when he ststed he would run down any cyclist who was in his way(or words to such effect) would the outcome of the following situation be?
Mr J Bloggs while waiting at the traffic lights fails to get away fast enough when they turn to green. Mr Clarkson runs down Mr Bloggs because he was not quick enough.
Now because Mr Clarkson has already stated publicly and in writing that he would run down a cyclist in his way could he be charged with murder as the article shows premeditation???
This is a bit of a poser..........
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TJ
Re:This is a bit of a poser..........
I think he should be sectioned anyway.... BEFORE he does any damage.
The man clearly isn't playing with a full deck.
The man clearly isn't playing with a full deck.
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gar
Re:This is a bit of a poser..........
Careful TJ; it may be your opinion
but it is a slander. This is a public place, entirely accessible from W3 searches.
Stilly's question is an interesting one and agree that it would probably be manslaughter.
I live in a part of the country whih has its fair share of superstitions. Declarations of intent like that, if put into words, enunciated by written or spoken word of any sort, are frequently acted upon unless deliberately disclaimed.
This applies to the words of an entirely private individual to a friend for example. I have done things recently that I unwittingly made commitment to , as a child!
Actually the question is one that must considerably exercise the mind of the judge
with the thread on manslaughter.
That forethought through poor morals of the individual is frequently the cause ; that falling prey to superstition is avoidable.
TJ's remark about insanity of the individual concerned (about whom I know nothing)
may be justifiable by the remarks he has made
in a public place, but I would not choose to
argue publicly in a court of law with him myself
at my own expense.
Shall we merely call for the resignation of Mr Clarkson from the job and the BBC?
but it is a slander. This is a public place, entirely accessible from W3 searches.
Stilly's question is an interesting one and agree that it would probably be manslaughter.
I live in a part of the country whih has its fair share of superstitions. Declarations of intent like that, if put into words, enunciated by written or spoken word of any sort, are frequently acted upon unless deliberately disclaimed.
This applies to the words of an entirely private individual to a friend for example. I have done things recently that I unwittingly made commitment to , as a child!
Actually the question is one that must considerably exercise the mind of the judge
with the thread on manslaughter.
That forethought through poor morals of the individual is frequently the cause ; that falling prey to superstition is avoidable.
TJ's remark about insanity of the individual concerned (about whom I know nothing)
may be justifiable by the remarks he has made
in a public place, but I would not choose to
argue publicly in a court of law with him myself
at my own expense.
Shall we merely call for the resignation of Mr Clarkson from the job and the BBC?
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gar
Re:This is a bit of a poser..........
I shall put something on the BBC websites.
with a link tho this board.
Which progrmme is it exactly please?
with a link tho this board.
Which progrmme is it exactly please?
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gar
Re:This is a bit of a poser..........
www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/
I have written to Topgear giving them the gist of TJ's remarks and the address of this messageboard.
The BBC complaints procedure is open to you above.
I see EXACTLY the point that Stilly is making
and complaints should be made to prevent such an accident or crime, by Mr Clarkson or anybody else who admires him (other than himself).
An intention to commit an offence is a crime
is it not and such an intention has apparently been expressed?
A public apology must be made.
I have written to Topgear giving them the gist of TJ's remarks and the address of this messageboard.
The BBC complaints procedure is open to you above.
I see EXACTLY the point that Stilly is making
and complaints should be made to prevent such an accident or crime, by Mr Clarkson or anybody else who admires him (other than himself).
An intention to commit an offence is a crime
is it not and such an intention has apparently been expressed?
A public apology must be made.
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Andy Tallis
Re:This is a bit of a poser..........
Nice one Gar. If I get round to it I may complain too.
As you say, he has threatened to run me over if I wait legitimately at the traffic lights and told me I have no right to use the road. He should apologise.
As you say, he has threatened to run me over if I wait legitimately at the traffic lights and told me I have no right to use the road. He should apologise.
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TJ
Re:This is a bit of a poser..........
A slander/libel is when something is written/said as a fact.
My statement is an opinion, hence the words"I think".
Stop being so pedantic gar, it doesn't suit you!
Having spent 26 years in a local govt legal dept., I am sure I can express the opinion that Mr C should be locked up.
My statement is an opinion, hence the words"I think".
Stop being so pedantic gar, it doesn't suit you!
Having spent 26 years in a local govt legal dept., I am sure I can express the opinion that Mr C should be locked up.
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Stilly
Re:This is a bit of a poser..........
Posted my complaint, just have to wait for the BS that spouts from the BBC. Should a call for him to resign from the rag that he writes for be made as well.
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Jon
Re:This is a bit of a poser..........
The thing that puzzles me about old JC’s threats to run over cyclists at traffic light is this: he has yet to actually do so. At least I’ve not seen any reports of him having done so, and if he had I’m sure we would hear about it. So, as far as I can work it out this must mean one of two things:-
Either these pesky cyclists are a lot thinner on the ground than he is trying to make out.
Or, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about and is spouting a lot of drivel that he’s made up out of his own head and doesn’t deserve to be masquerading as a real journalist.
Incidentally, I did happen to catch sight of him on the TV the other day. I thought he was starting to look rather old and tired – maybe it is time he retired for a rest.
Either these pesky cyclists are a lot thinner on the ground than he is trying to make out.
Or, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about and is spouting a lot of drivel that he’s made up out of his own head and doesn’t deserve to be masquerading as a real journalist.
Incidentally, I did happen to catch sight of him on the TV the other day. I thought he was starting to look rather old and tired – maybe it is time he retired for a rest.
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gar
Re:This is a bit of a poser..........
I'll ignore TJ's comment which I take for the moment, since Stilly has done something much more valuable.... as a campaigner for ALL cyclists and possibly ONE.
Should a call for him to resign from the rag that he writes for be made as well.
You will have to email the rag as well then won't you? If you can find HIS email address so much the better.
If you can remember or establish the EXACT chapter and verses of what he said on TV and
in the article then it would be a great help, in demanding an apology.
I merely keep on hearing it from you 'orl.
The intention to commit an offence enjoys the right to arrest but perhaps TJ knows the possible consequent charges .... which probably depend on the offence that you intend to commit!
If it is an intention to commit manslaughter
then the exact evidence of the intention is essential. In the case of a presenter (and there have been previous such cases) an archive video
or if somebody has saved it, would be the best.
If such remarks are in a newspaper then a copy of the newspaper report would be adequate.
Obviously the bytes are very different cf TV and paper. He must not get away with it and Stilly is
doing a very proper thing in alleging the offence against this individual.
Should a call for him to resign from the rag that he writes for be made as well.
You will have to email the rag as well then won't you? If you can find HIS email address so much the better.
If you can remember or establish the EXACT chapter and verses of what he said on TV and
in the article then it would be a great help, in demanding an apology.
I merely keep on hearing it from you 'orl.
The intention to commit an offence enjoys the right to arrest but perhaps TJ knows the possible consequent charges .... which probably depend on the offence that you intend to commit!
If it is an intention to commit manslaughter
then the exact evidence of the intention is essential. In the case of a presenter (and there have been previous such cases) an archive video
or if somebody has saved it, would be the best.
If such remarks are in a newspaper then a copy of the newspaper report would be adequate.
Obviously the bytes are very different cf TV and paper. He must not get away with it and Stilly is
doing a very proper thing in alleging the offence against this individual.
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gar
Re:This is a bit of a poser..........
Jeremy Clarkson tirade when he ststed he would run down any cyclist who was in his way(or words to such effect)
The allegation is that he intends to commit the above offence and it insofar as he expressed the intention the offence is
"The intention to commit manslaughter" recorded in one of his programmes.
Since you say "To that effect" I am not yet convinced.
If you can give me the wording, I will write it in my own name gar@garethhowell.net
not highlighted http://www.garethhowell.net
The allegation is that he intends to commit the above offence and it insofar as he expressed the intention the offence is
"The intention to commit manslaughter" recorded in one of his programmes.
Since you say "To that effect" I am not yet convinced.
If you can give me the wording, I will write it in my own name gar@garethhowell.net
not highlighted http://www.garethhowell.net
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gar
Re:This is a bit of a poser..........
Jeremy Clarkson
he would run down any cyclist who was in his way
I will run down any cyclist in my way
Date and programme possibly any background film clip you can remember as he said it.
he would run down any cyclist who was in his way
I will run down any cyclist in my way
Date and programme possibly any background film clip you can remember as he said it.
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TJ
Re:This is a bit of a poser..........
Why give this man free publicity? Many of his readers/viewers will agree with him.
I think the best course of action would be to ignore the fool!
I bet that in 1 years time, he hasn't apologised or been removed from his post because of complaints from cyclists.
A concerted effort by the CTC as a national cycling body might do the trick though.
I think the best course of action would be to ignore the fool!
I bet that in 1 years time, he hasn't apologised or been removed from his post because of complaints from cyclists.
A concerted effort by the CTC as a national cycling body might do the trick though.
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gar
Re:This is a bit of a poser..........
because Mr Clarkson has already stated publicly and in writing that he would run down a cyclist in his way could he be charged with murder as the article shows premeditation???
The point about 1 year's time is a good one.
but I think Stilly's point also lends finesse to the argument.
He has expressed his intention which for obvious psychological reasons (as TJ remarks)
he may well carry out at a later date.
TJ will probably also know what the sentences are for the " intention to commit an offence"! Is the Presenter above the law? Does he THINK he is above the law?
Stilly suggests that he may actually carry out this threat at a later date, that his words BIND him to a course of action. That is the purpose of
the criminal law in that instance, to discourage
people from making such BINDING statements.
The temporal aspect is important as he may not carry out his threat for one, two or even five years. If he is known to have said such a thing and it is on the public file/ archive or verifiable
by somebody who has saved it in video, or news paper clip will it therefore be (sic murder) Manslaughter, a deliberate act of running somebody down?
I suspect that Stilly would want to prevent such an event happening either to any cyclist or to
the foolish Mr Clarkson, which is presumably why Stilly raises the question, prevention being better than cure.
It is the most interesting question of commitment to a course of action through
words which bind the speaker to it, and consequently the INTEGRITY of the correspondent/presenter/ writer.
Mr Clarkson's integrity is seriously in doubt,
and as far as this board/CTC is concerned has lost it entirely.
The point about 1 year's time is a good one.
but I think Stilly's point also lends finesse to the argument.
He has expressed his intention which for obvious psychological reasons (as TJ remarks)
he may well carry out at a later date.
TJ will probably also know what the sentences are for the " intention to commit an offence"! Is the Presenter above the law? Does he THINK he is above the law?
Stilly suggests that he may actually carry out this threat at a later date, that his words BIND him to a course of action. That is the purpose of
the criminal law in that instance, to discourage
people from making such BINDING statements.
The temporal aspect is important as he may not carry out his threat for one, two or even five years. If he is known to have said such a thing and it is on the public file/ archive or verifiable
by somebody who has saved it in video, or news paper clip will it therefore be (sic murder) Manslaughter, a deliberate act of running somebody down?
I suspect that Stilly would want to prevent such an event happening either to any cyclist or to
the foolish Mr Clarkson, which is presumably why Stilly raises the question, prevention being better than cure.
It is the most interesting question of commitment to a course of action through
words which bind the speaker to it, and consequently the INTEGRITY of the correspondent/presenter/ writer.
Mr Clarkson's integrity is seriously in doubt,
and as far as this board/CTC is concerned has lost it entirely.