1988 Raleigh 531st Tourer-Resprays or not?

[fenmanctc]

Jeez! Looking at that one, I should worry! The only light corrosion on the Raleigh was on inside of the chainstays, where mud had abraded the paint, and I applied Hammerite before they rusted. The small tube in front of the rear mudguard was rustier, but I assume this isn’t structurally important. BTW, I have removed the seat post and looked inside, and there is a grey coating in there, but no visible rust. Good news? There is no spoke carrier, and the Raleigh decals are indeed white, so does that make it a Randonneur or Royal frame?
Cheers John (fenmanctc)

[slowster]

does that make it a Randonneur or Royal frame?

It was sold as a frame only, and the designation was Type 8807, as per the 1987 Raleigh catalogue in this Retrobike thread:

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=178542

Given that it does not have the spoke holder on the chainstay, it is not a Randonneur frame. I don't know what if any difference there is between the Type 8807 and the Royal of the same era (or if the spoke holder was the only difference between the Randonneur and Royal). I suspect it might be that the Type 8807 and the Royal frame are the same apart from the inferior paint/colour scheme on the Type 8807. I don't think Raleigh sold the Randonneur or Royal as a frame only, and I imagine that would have been because it was much more profitable to sell them only as a complete bike.

[colin54]

does that make it a Randonneur or Royal frame?

It was sold as a frame only, and the designation was Type 8807, as per the 1987 Raleigh catalogue in this Retrobike thread:

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=178542

Given that it does not have the spoke holder on the chainstay, it is not a Randonneur frame. I don't know what if any difference there is between the Type 8807 and the Royal of the same era (or if the spoke holder was the only difference between the Randonneur and Royal). I suspect it might be that the Type 8807 and the Royal frame are the same apart from the inferior paint/colour scheme on the Type 8807. I don't think Raleigh sold the Randonneur or Royal as a frame only, and I imagine that would have been because it was much more profitable to sell them only as a complete bike.

Here's the Royal/Randonneur pages in the 1988 catalogue from the Classic Lightweights site; from the specification table I note that the Randonneur is stated to have 'Shimano Forged Vertical Drop Outs', The Royal listing just states 'Vertical Drop Outs', with both bikes having 'Full 531 Tube Set'. Both machine's forks described as having; 'Forged Crown 531 Blades' .
http://classiclightweights.net/wp-conte ... 1988-6.jpg
I note on the 8807 description slowster linked to up-thread, the drop outs are described as as 'Shimano vertical with twin eyes'.
I don't know if you can draw any conclusions from that ?

[hoogerbooger]

Sounds to me that your original paint is largely intact and very little corrosion & sound inside. So I would definitely not get a respray & would just check the humbrol paint charts and consider if there are any that are close or could mix and see if you can make a better match than your Hammerite.

(That Dave Yates respray looks really nice, but I'd only cry once I'd scratched it)

My Randonneur was/is more rusty than your frame. I patched the worst bits last summer. After local sanding down to metal I used a cheap air brush to prime, coat and clear coat. Used cling film on bits I didn't want paint and made paper masking with holes torn in to match the bits I did want paint and secured it so It wasn't quite tight against the frame to help feather the edges. Worked remarkably well.....not perfect but much better than I expected....although I had some problems spraying metallic in that it matched if mixed and painted, but didn't seem to mix as well in the air brush so didn't match so well....but good enough for me and like you the patches of rust I did were on the inside (& underneith) of the chainstay......and I'll work out how to solve the mixing difficulty when I do half of the left front fork this summer. Ultimately matching metallic is probably tricky.

[djnotts]

I like Raleigh 531st frames, but not IMO worth the cost of a respray. Powder coat will do the job cheaper.

[cycle tramp]

I got a Raleigh Royal from that era (6 speed) via a forum member which had dreadful paint externally but wasn't too bad internally and had the grey coating mentioned, pictured at bottom bracket,
The frame was still pretty solid underneath the surface rust externally..
I believe it had done ...a lot... of all weather miles, before it came to me.
$matches[2]
$matches[2]
Edit; picture added to show grimness, I think the salt had got at it, there was some pitting on the chainstays under all the surface rust.
P1040305.JPG

Before bike was stripped to the frame can you recall if a front mud flap was ever fitted to the mudguard?

[fenmanctc]

You people are brilliant! Looking at those catalogue excerpts, I’m certain it’s an 8807 frame. The paint job is exact, but there the Raleigh spec ends. Mine had SunTour alpha mechs, Wolber 57 rims ( still original) double-butted stainless spokes, sealed hubs and bottom bracket bearings, cantis, Brooks B17 Narrow saddle, MKS quill pedals with Christoph clips etc.
I’m going down the road of improved touch-up having sanded down the hammered finish of the Hammerite and can spray used sparingly. Might also try Brucey’s clear coat recommendation. That cling film masking sounds a cracking idea- better than masking tape.
After all, I’ve just turned 76. I reckon the bike will last longer than me! John (fenmanctc)

[colin54]

Nice to hear you're keeping it original Fenman, happy with your purchase from 1988, excellent, wishing you many more happy miles.

Before bike was stripped to the frame can you recall if a front mud flap was ever fitted to the mudguard?

There was some fibreglass or something at the end of the guard, but that was possibly a crack repair,
though the front forks didn't look much better than the BB area tbh. I gave the rust a rub down and coat of Kurust and Black smooth Hammerite and built the bike up for my brother, he hardly used it and I've since built him a Saracen MTB with road tyres and guards which suit him better.
The Raleigh is currently giving sterling service leant against the wall of my spare 'bedroom', gradually losing parts used for other bikes ...
As I received it with guard and showing rust on fork legs;

A nice riding bike, though slightly too large for me (21'').

[hoogerbooger]

Make sure the mudguards don't contact the stays when they are back on. That seems to have exacerbated the rust on mine, presumably by a combination of rubbing and holding damp mud against the stays. So I did some reshaping of the guard with a modelling knife.

I also used kurust 1st having sanded off all visible rust. A fibre glass pen is good for very localised rust removal if not too progressed.

I would have done a full clear coat over the frame if there wasn't more rust to deal with still . I keyed up a extra cm to clear coat my patches and again did my best to taper the edge with masking secured a little away from the patch to spray.

I did wax the whole frame after using a canuba wax. That made a pleasing improvement on the somewhat dulled finish.......but of course would not last as long as a good clear coat.......This forum however advised make sure all rust is dealt with before clear coating.

[Brucey]

As I've previously mentioned, if you use Owatrol on a rusty surface, it'll either stifle the rust or it won't, and you will be able to see which has happened (after a few weeks) because the coating is transparent. Rust that has been treated with Owatrol is a very different colour from fresh rust, so if fresh rust grows, you will see it easily. If the rust is stifled you can slap some top coat on.

Owatrol can also be used as a clear coat, and because it is oil-based (rather than solvent based) it doesn't tend to 'go for' transfers and so forth in the same way as cellulose or acrylic clear coats do. As a clear coat it can (subject to the recoat recommendations) be patched up and touched -in ad infinitum. Since it also works as a primer and/or a barrier layer between paint types (amongst other things), it is a very versatile coating indeed.

cheers

[niloc]

The only areas where my 1987 Raleigh 531st Tourer is rusting is at each top tube cable guide, which is annoying as it is difficult to retouch. Your's really doesn't look too bad either, so I think you should just retouch where necessary like me. The bigger problem I find is that the canti pivot spacing is no longer compatible with modern cantilever brakes, so I'm stuck with my original Diacompe cantis. But the Raleigh 531st Tourer is a lovely frame!

[fausto99]

As I've previously mentioned, if you use Owatrol on a rusty surface, it'll either stifle the rust or it won't, and you will be able to see which has happened (after a few weeks) because the coating is transparent. Rust that has been treated with Owatrol is a very different colour from fresh rust, so if fresh rust grows, you will see it easily. If the rust is stifled you can slap some top coat on.

Owatrol can also be used as a clear coat, and because it is oil-based (rather than solvent based) it doesn't tend to 'go for' transfers and so forth in the same way as cellulose or acrylic clear coats do. As a clear coat it can (subject to the recoat recommendations) be patched up and touched -in ad infinitum. Since it also works as a primer and/or a barrier layer between paint types (amongst other things), it is a very versatile coating indeed.

cheers

Interesting. Which Owatrol product is that? Owatrol Oil?

[Brucey]

Interesting. Which Owatrol product is that? Owatrol Oil?

yes.

FWIW the trial size (£5 for about 100ml) is more than enough to treat the rust spots on a bike frame.



cheers

[hoogerbooger]

Owatrol oil: any use with widespread surface rust?

I have an old Revell frame with surface rust on the tops of all tubes. The previous owner had treated it with something that has turned the rust black but not seemingly affected paint or decals.

I have a Bob Jackson frame with similar surface rust that is untreated.

Both don't appear rusty inside the tubes & I am happy with a distressed look. So could Owatrol be used to permanently prevent further rusting by just coating essentially the whole frame ? & actually use the bike in wet conditions

[Brucey]

I have only been using this stuff for less than a year, so my personal experience is necessarily limited. However I would say that the answer is 'yes' in most cases. Certainly the cost vs benefit vs downsides of using the stuff on damaged areas seems to be very good indeed; it takes very little effort to put some on a dodgy spot, it usually works and there is virtually no downside to so doing.

I have not used it on many different finishes as a clear coat (so under some conditions it may weather badly in the long term for all I know) but I have only discovered one downside to it thus far; if you slap it on something outside, and it rains (or there is heavy dewfall perhaps) overnight before it dries then it can simply be washed off.

It is not unusual for weathered paint to lose its colour; for example a lot of solid reds go pink etc. That this may be something to do with the surface of the paint is apparent from two observations; 1) that hard cutting back of the paint restores the colour (until it weathers again) and 2) that the colour miraculously reappears when the surface is wet (with water or solvent). IME the colour is miraculously restored in most cases by clear-coating with owatrol. If in any doubt the usual advice (to try in an inconspicuous area first) applies.

cheers