I don't like living in England....

[pwa]

Calculations are usually based around certain things.

Percentage of average wages - relative.

And abilityto buy a specified minimum range of products. These are revised from time to time. For example, the basket now includes mobile communications. You might consider that a luxury but without it people cannot easily - or even at all - claim benefits. And as we have seen in recent times, children can be excluded from education without it.

The basket used to contain B and W Tv. Colour was a luxury. Now no longer as you can’t get B and W.

And we all know that following year on year increases in home ownership from the 1960s to the 1990s, it is now falling year on year as it becomes less and less affordable.

Yes, poverty is often relative and comparing today's poverty with that of the 1950s is problematic. Relative poverty includes people comparing their own circumstances with more affluent people, both locally and through media. Because of that, one aspect of poverty is driven by others doing well while you stand still. But absolute poverty exists where people cannot feed their families. Literally, "bread and butter" poverty where food and heating are a struggle. And that shouldn't happen.

[Jdsk]

Yes, if you want to understand poverty and its effects it's essential to study both absolute and relative poverty.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

we must be in the top ten of even the most anti british opinion.

I wouldn't describe people with concerns about some aspects of life in Britain and some recent developments as "anti British". On the contrary those concerns are likely to show that they care about Britain and want to see improvement. That's about as "pro British" as you can get.

Jonathan

[pwa]

we must be in the top ten of even the most anti british opinion.

I wouldn't describe people with concerns about some aspects of life in Britain and some recent developments as "anti British". On the contrary those concerns are likely to show that they care about Britain and want to see improvement. That's about as "pro British" as you can get.

Jonathan

That is just about my own take on it. The UK is a great place with a lot for us to be happy with, but there are issues that need addressing.

[Oldjohnw]

Sadly, there is plenty of absolute poverty as described above. Which is largely why there has been such a massive increase in food banks in the last decade.

[Ben@Forest]

How do you compare today's poverty with the 1950s? Did poor people have TVs then? Did they have access to cancer screening when they felt ill? There are aspects of modern life that benefit even the poor. I agree things went downhill after the Financial Crisis.

The UK government measure poverty as a household having less than 60% of the median UK household income. The limitation with such a measure is that as median income rises (thus pushing up the level of where 60% is), or the price of consumer goods fall, households below the line have more (often far more) than people did in 1950 or 1980.

There are other measures which may work better or fail too. The Child Poverty Action Group highlights a measure of children having at least a one-week holiday in every year - which I suspect would mean many children have been in poverty in the last 12 months. And if they haven't had a holiday - is it really that debilitating to their condition? One could say the poorer access to education was/is a better measure of poverty.

[pwa]

How do you compare today's poverty with the 1950s? Did poor people have TVs then? Did they have access to cancer screening when they felt ill? There are aspects of modern life that benefit even the poor. I agree things went downhill after the Financial Crisis.

The UK government measure poverty as a household having less than 60% of the median UK household income. The limitation with such a measure is that as median income rises (thus pushing up the level of where 60% is), or the price of consumer goods fall, households below the line have more (often far more) than people did in 1950 or 1980.

There are other measures which may work better or fail too. The Child Poverty Action Group highlights a measure of children having at least a one-week holiday in every year - which I suspect would mean many children have been in poverty in the last 12 months. And if they haven't had a holiday - is it really that debilitating to their condition? One could say the poorer access to education was/is a better measure of poverty.

I think the holiday or lack of one is an indicator. If a child is not getting an annual holiday they are probably not getting other treats that their friends at school are getting, and over time that is likely to weigh on them. They will know that their friends' families don't fret about money the way their own family does.

[Pebble]

How do you compare today's poverty with the 1950s? Did poor people have TVs then? Did they have access to cancer screening when they felt ill? There are aspects of modern life that benefit even the poor. I agree things went downhill after the Financial Crisis.

The UK government measure poverty as a household having less than 60% of the median UK household income. The limitation with such a measure is that as median income rises (thus pushing up the level of where 60% is), or the price of consumer goods fall, households below the line have more (often far more) than people did in 1950 or 1980.

There are other measures which may work better or fail too. The Child Poverty Action Group highlights a measure of children having at least a one-week holiday in every year - which I suspect would mean many children have been in poverty in the last 12 months. And if they haven't had a holiday - is it really that debilitating to their condition? One could say the poorer access to education was/is a better measure of poverty.

that means me and the wife are living in poverty - just hilarious if that is the measure, we're along way off being rich but we have a great life and want for nothing - but apparently we're living in poverty, I wonder if we make up the daft stats?

There was a program we watched on TV some time ago surrounding food banks, there was one woman, £50 manicure, £700 iPhone saying how she could not afford to buy food, if. I'm sure there is real poverty out there, I see it in the homeless on the streets of Newcastle and Edinburgh and my heart goes out to them, but on the other hand I do think there is a a lot of exaggeration and many who are just spending their benefits on the wrong stuff.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

I too would love to be still alive in 50,100 years.
Would the world still exist in the year 52,121?

Could the world or even England live with you in 50 years time

If I remember correctly someone has discovered a way to pre-age whiskey.
It's possible that in 50 years time or even 100 years time they will come out with medication that will allow you to take anything but not suffer the after affects.
I just wonder the state of peoples minds in 50 or 100 years time.
On the other hand most of the population might of died out and we might be starting again.
I prefer the latter idea, re-evaluating what makes for a good life?

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

I am not looking back and I remember the poverty of the 1950s. I was there and I was poor. But, as I said, I am seeing things getting that way again: the wealth gap is bigger than ever. That doesn't sound like progress.

It am interested how people get their information if they never read the press or listen to the news in any form as some appear to suggest.

I think it's called blinkered.
You know you've met those people haven't you when you talk about something they don't like they put their fingers in their ears, Add Nah nanah na na! One of my siblings done that to me one day I was so surprised they were so childish.
It wasn't like we were having an argument or anything I just said something they didn't agree with like I don't like the colour red or something.
I think they're more of those sort of people out there that people actually think, the ones that won't have a TV because the children might see something bad on them I'm not talking about Nasty stuff I'm just talking about about News in general.
In the media the other day, sorry I mean on the mainstream news channels, a couple who had survived Covid on a cruise ship in Japan, they were just looking forward to getting back to the cruise at the moment, they said they have booked no less than six cruises in 2021.
What can you say........

[Paulatic]

[
that means me and the wife are living in poverty - just hilarious if that is the measure, we're along way off being rich but we have a great life and want for nothing - but apparently we're living in poverty, I wonder if we make up the daft stats?

There was a program we watched on TV some time ago surrounding food banks, there was one woman, £50 manicure, £700 iPhone saying how she could not afford to buy food, if. I'm sure there is real poverty out there, I see it in the homeless on the streets of Newcastle and Edinburgh and my heart goes out to them, but on the other hand I do think there is a a lot of exaggeration and many who are just spending their benefits on the wrong stuff.

Was there evidence she paid £50 for the manicure? And the same with the phone which really is an essential item in this day an age.
You might look at my phone and say it’s a £700 phone as that was it’s cost new. In reality I have a £120 phone owned now for over 5yrs so not costing a lot really is it?
I hope you vote Tory as you sound right up their street and if only people were as sensible and as prudent as us they wouldn’t have a problem. Yes I’ve lived in poverty, by that measure, most of my life too and managed to build a house and never have a mortgage but I don’t expect other people to be like me.
My kids were around 9 yo before they got a weeks holiday away somewhere please don’t tell them they were deprived they probably think I was mean enough anyway.

[Ben@Forest]

There was a program we watched on TV some time ago surrounding food banks, there was one woman, £50 manicure, £700 iPhone saying how she could not afford to buy food, if. I'm sure there is real poverty out there, I see it in the homeless on the streets of Newcastle and Edinburgh and my heart goes out to them, but on the other hand I do think there is a a lot of exaggeration and many who are just spending their benefits on the wrong stuff.

The amount spent on women's beauty products (to the detriment of other, healthier, products) comes up in newspapers and magazines occasionally. Can't find a direct example but this from Glamour magazine in 2018 is interesting - partly because of the age group it hightlights:

We bravely took the quiz to face up to our beauty addiction once and for all. And it was pretty shocking – or impressive, whichever way you choose to look at it. Our yearly spend was a whopping £867.60, and it turns out we use 26 products in our daily routine. 26?! It’s no wonder we’re always so busy.

The research also showed that 16-24-year-olds are the age group with the highest beauty spend, using an average of 16 beauty products a day, worth £153 in total....

[merseymouth]

Morning all, poverty is ever changing by the expectations of society at large!
We see more, we want more, we expect more. Others have the car, the mega tv, the foreign holidays, the designer labels ad nauseum.
The basic needs have been corrupted, we no longer accept the simple fact that we must all learn life skills and proper budgeting, that we can improve our own lot by good life management.
We probably waste more food in a year than we actually had under wartime rationing! So smart up, learn more about how to feed ourselves properly, certainly far better to know exactly what goes into our food, it isn't that difficult to cut down on needless waste.
The throwaway society we live in does not want the consumer to use durable items, never repair, dispose of and buy another shoddy item! Buy well once, rather than frequently buying tat!
I'll leave on one point, just think about the longevity of cars made by Rolls Royce, the percentage of vehicles still in existence rather than scrapped is great, even model T Fords have survived longer than modern disposable vehicles.
So we all want more, we expect more and we bellyache if we think we ain't getting what we think we should have.
I've had 4 extra years, hopefully more to come, which is all down to the service I have received in the NHS, rubbish hospital infrastructure, brilliant treatment. Take nothing for granted, do your very best to help folk in the NHS to know they are truely appreciated. Bless em all. MM

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

On retirement I thought Civil Servants get a lump sum gratuity of 3x of final salary which they never paid a penny towards? Perhaps things have changed...?
If GPs are selling off their practices they had better be stopped. The cause being the daft way they are contracted by the BMA to the NHS.

Al

Unusually, Al, you are talking nonsense about CS pensions and shooting from the hip. I never got anything like 3 X salary lump sum and I paid into the scheme from the start apart from the first couple of years, in the 1960s. Lump sums are maximum 3 X annual pension . and pension is then reduced. Not that my pension is anything to do with you. Most final salary schemes, such as those enjoyed until very recently by teachers, bank clerks, policemen etc get a lump sum. It is the deal they have paid for: salary deferred.

https://www.pensionbee.com/pensions-exp ... or-pension

"A public sector pension is a workplace pension for public sector employees, for example teachers, NHS workers and civil servants. Many public sector pensions are defined benefit pensions, and some of them are unfunded."

"Many public sector pensions are defined benefit pensions, which means the amount they’re worth on retirement is based on your final salary and the length of your employment rather than the amount you’ve paid into the pension.

Some public sector pension schemes (for example the Local Government Pension Scheme) are funded, but many public sector pensions (including the NHS, teacher and civil service pension schemes) are unfunded defined benefit pensions. This means that they pay retirement incomes from the employer’s current income - tax revenue in the case of the public sector - rather than setting assets aside to pay for pensions."

A good life if you can get it.
Even today the NHS are still enrolling people on final salary pensions.
And people not even born will be taxed to pay for these pensions of people who will have died off by then.

[kwackers]

just think about the longevity of cars made by Rolls Royce

Rolls were rot boxes. The only reason they survived was because they were seen as "desirable" for a multitude of reasons not because they were good.

You can't compare what is a niche vehicle with a modern mass produced vehicle for the masses (even the Model T was niche really).
If you want a modern car to last you just need to give it the same care and attention you would to a Rolls or a Model T.