Gate Drive Belt

[Brucey]

there are different sprocket tooth pitches and different widths as well as different constructions of belts. Belts can be reinforced with glass fibres, Kevlar and/or carbon fibres. There are also different facing fabrics. They vary in their stiffness and resistance to damage from locally applied stresses (kinks). You can slit wider belts (intended for other applications) and turn them into belts that are narrow enough to be fitted to a bicycle, but the end result may be unsuitable for a bike application.

Belts to drive camshafts were often touted as 'lasting forever' and 'not needing cases' when they were first introduced. In practice they are installed in cases, and it is widely considered prudent to halve the manufacturer's recommended replacement interval if the engine is an 'interference' type (ie where the pistons hit the valves when the belt breaks).

cheers

[Jupestar]

It won’t be a mod I’m taking on.

It worked well for 2 years, but neither of us ever took the wheel off, or adjusted the EBB. I fixed the rear in situ a couple of times, but for tubes and brake pads, greasing of the EBB... it was bike shop. I could not cope with that. It takes too long to arrange and transport it all.

It cost £20 to replace the entire drive chain. The parts would have been available next day for an extra £5. As it was we were able to borrow parts from available source to avoid waiting..

If it was me, I’d probably give the belt another go, learn how to tension it correctly, and keep £20 worth of replacement chain parts at the office and at home...

[NickJP]

This guy likes belt drive: https://www.cyclingabout.com/belt-drive ... rivetrain/.

[Brucey]

This guy likes belt drive: https://www.cyclingabout.com/belt-drive ... rivetrain/.

that is Australia though, not clarty UK roads/conditions.

FWIW I suspect that one of the things that may wreck belts in the UK is wet followed by freezing; if moisture penetrates the fabric parts of the belt at the sides, then freezes, I suspect this will cause the belt to delaminate much faster than normal. Worse yet if the belt is used in this state I think it will be likely to (literally) fall apart. If it is cold enough, the belt may stay damp/frozen in use, unlike many (most) other applications.

cheers

[ElCani]

This guy likes belt drive: https://www.cyclingabout.com/belt-drive ... rivetrain/.

that is Australia though, not clarty UK roads/conditions.

FWIW I suspect that one of the things that may wreck belts in the UK is wet followed by freezing; if moisture penetrates the fabric parts of the belt at the sides, then freezes, I suspect this will cause the belt to delaminate much faster than normal. Worse yet if the belt is used in this state I think it will be likely to (literally) fall apart. If it is cold enough, the belt may stay damp/frozen in use, unlike many (most) other applications.

cheers

He says he's ridden them 'across continents' and specifically mentions that they 'handle adverse conditions incredibly well'.

Edit: I've actually seen some of his videos before and he does make a convincing case (which then seems to be blown apart by cases such as the OP's) but he does state that he runs his belts way below the recommended tension, and says you need a very stiff frame to do that.

[Brucey]

which continents..? Even if he had ridden in freezing conditions on a big tour that might be (say) two dozen freeze cycles...? About the same as a month's winter commuting then...? And who knows about humidity?

IME winter UK commuting can be the hardest miles of all; the roads are at their filthiest (freshly gritted in the mornings), the bike is often neglected for months at a time too; water gets into all kinds of nooks and crannies and variously causes freezing damage and/or corrosion. Worse yet if you have sat behind a desk all day, filling yourself with caffeine and frustration in equal measure, 'going home time' is an excuse to let off some steam; some commuters are putting out 400-500W on the ride home, from what I've seen, at every traffic light! No wonder stuff breaks and wears out before time on their bikes. I think it is quite possible that some commuters average about three times the power that a long distance tourist might, and furthermore they just don't care about the bike until it makes so much noise they can't ignore it any more or it just breaks.
When used in this way under these conditions it is painfully evident that much modern cycling equipment *just isn't good enough* in that it can be completely destroyed in just a few months.

Conditions of use are everything really; I once did several thousand miles on some fairly lightweight (for touring) tyres and had no punctures (which I wasn't expecting). I compared notes with a chum of mine who used the same tyres on his training bike and there couldn't have been a bigger contrast. He was bigger and heavier (but still not the weight of my loaded touring bike) and was training on averagely mucky UK roads, not the mostly cleaner and drier ones I'd been touring on. He ran lower pressures than I did too, I think. He'd had about half a dozen punctures a month in his identical tyres, and they were cut to ribbons in a short period of time. Tyres that were only 500 miles old in his use looked worse than my 'transcontinental' tyres did.

So not all miles are created equal by any means. FWIW I would be attracted by the idea of low maintenance on a commuting bike, but riding a belt (even briefly) is quite sufficient to dissuade me; horrible spongy things that feel like they are sapping your effort away from every traffic light. Maybe if you are riding all day at lower power output you can learn to ignore it. Maybe.

cheers

[Jupestar]

This guy likes belt drive: https://www.cyclingabout.com/belt-drive ... rivetrain/.

I would suggest that anyone who has taken the time to write a detailed blog on it, probably gives it a bit more TLC than the average London commuter who uses bikes as a daily mode of transport.

I'm not sure my views on it. I'm happy looking after a chain, and fettle around enough with the set up that it's not of interest to me. but many don't share this interest, and just want it to work from A-B. So what is better as a hands off - off the shelf maintenance commuter with gears?. I'm not sure I can see one.

I've been watching it with interest. In the last 2 years with his (zero) maintenance regime, he would have gone through 4 or more drive chains I reckon. I believe, as he did service the bike at the shop regularly he could have expected this belt to do many more years.

But, it's probably seen most of these additional bills anyway, just instead on rear tubes, rear brake pad (disc) replacements, grease on the EBB (which only seems can be done as part of a service package). Basically anything that requires un-hooking the belt. Ironically its probably had more services than would be recommended because of this, and therefore a regular drive chain would not have been an issue either.

Price is not the issue here, the bike has paid the transport bills multiple times over, and will continue to do so, regardless of what he does with it. This is a convenience thing, being off the road, or the hassle of getting it booked in and out of a shop, it’ probably been in more times for minor stuff because of the belt, which otherwise he (or more likely I) would have been willing to deal with.

Even ignoring the belt failure, I’m struggling to see an upside, I guess the only thing with zero home cleaning/lubing the drop off in ride quality is far less than with a dirty chain, and you have better ride between services.

[Jupestar]

causes freezing damage and/or corrosion.

FWIW this bike is kept indoors both ends of the commute - so i'm not sure freezing temp is a huge issue.

some commuters are putting out 400-500W on the ride home, from what I've seen, at every traffic light! No wonder stuff breaks and wears out before time on their bikes.

10000% not so much at Traffic lights, but when it is safe i do like to put some watts down, especially as its the only time i really get to myself and to let off some steam. I'm 110kg and 6ft 4, with power in the legs from years of rowing. worst still i have no desire to change my riding style.

it is painfully evident that much modern cycling equipment *just isn't good enough* in that it can be completely destroyed in just a few months.

absolutely a few months at best. FWIW i'm pretty sure i could destroy old stuff as well.

So not all miles are created equal by any means. FWIW I would be attracted by the idea of low maintenance on a commuting bike,

I've just ended up with 2 bikes, i can't really afford to be off the road even for a day. I just have to hope its at the right end of the commute if i need it.

but riding a belt (even briefly) is quite sufficient to dissuade me; horrible spongy things that feel like they are sapping your effort away from every traffic light.

Agree. I find there is no pick up, not to bad at crusing speed otherwise.

[Brucey]

quite a few people have reported that their (nice warm) bikes have manifested frozen cables after some minutes of use, when air temperatures are low enough. Maybe belts can do the same kind of thing?

FWIW the 'old fashioned' solution to this is a chaincase. It only works with an IGH (pretty much like belts) and with the right lube on the chain you only need to be fiddling with it about once a year. A chaincase may be a pain to fit first time round but thereafter they can be little trouble. I worked on a bike with one fitted today and I had to remove three self-tapping screws and then it was out of the way, nae worries. IIRC someone had commented to me that getting the wheel out was difficult with this particular chaincase; just moving the chaincase to a new position (a whole 1/8" different....) made all the difference.

Arguably a chaincase is better than a belt because your troos stay out of the workings for sure (which isn't the case with a belt), and there is pretty much no chance of FOD with a chaincase either.

cheers

[Billy007]

This guy likes belt drive: https://www.cyclingabout.com/belt-drive ... rivetrain/.

that is Australia though, not clarty UK roads/conditions.

FWIW I suspect that one of the things that may wreck belts in the UK is wet followed by freezing; if moisture penetrates the fabric parts of the belt at the sides, then freezes, I suspect this will cause the belt to delaminate much faster than normal. Worse yet if the belt is used in this state I think it will be likely to (literally) fall apart. If it is cold enough, the belt may stay damp/frozen in use, unlike many (most) other applications.

cheers

He's ridden tens if not hundreds of thousands of miles touring around the world particularly in South America. He knows what he is talking about. He has spent considerable time and resources accumulating many many miles of experience under his belt. He uses a Koga touring bike with Rohloff hub and belt drive. AFAIAA it has never let him down either the Rohloff hub, Gates belt or any other component. So I consider his real world experience very helpful and worthwhile unlike some who comment on set ups they haven't used or don't understand.

[nez]

An acid test when looking to buy a belt drive bike is to see if there is any UK stock of the belt drive parts required for your machine. IME there very often isn't any, and Brexit + Covid means that many of the potential supply routes are a bit kyboshed at present.

cheers

And presumably if you live in Lisburn, Carrickfergus or Enniskillen don't buy one at all!

[Billy007]

Deleted.

[Brucey]

So you commented on this guy Ali Denham being Australia. You clearly didn't watch this video or indeed any of his others.

frankly that is a pretty daft thing to say. Read what I wrote and ask yourself if the conditions experienced by others are really like the ones likely to be seen in a UK winter. As it happens I like his website quite a lot but (amazingly enough) conditions are different in different places and with different people and this can completely change things; I'll say it again, just in case you missed it conditions of use are everything.

You should perhaps be asking yourself why he hasn't had any breakages; there are very few things on bikes which I have not either broken myself or seen broken; the trick is understanding why if you want to learn anything. If you ride 1000 miles over a mountain range you may think you have done a big thing, but in reality that might be less of a big deal in mileage, or terms of what happens to the bike, or well, anything actually vs a few weeks of winter UK riding. I have seen numerous failings and shortcomings in belt drive systems and these have occurred with normal people riding in normal UK conditions; something I consider to be somewhat more pertinent to the case in hand.

Remember that the difference between something pretty good and something pretty awful is that one in ten or one in fifty of the rotten things breaks in use, either because it is inconsistently made or it isn't fit for the conditions of use. The least interesting reviews of anything are ones in which there is no problem (and at least nine out of ten are quite likely to be like that, even if the product is a bit crap) . The most interesting are where something has failed and there is some understanding of how/why this has occurred.

cheers

[fastpedaller]

I see a 'trend' happening on this (and indeed other) fora....... If something is new it 'must' be better and anyone who thinks otherwise is a 'dinosaur' or similar! Strange old World we live in

[Jupestar]

quite a few people have reported that their (nice warm) bikes have manifested frozen cables after some minutes of use, when air temperatures are low enough.

Reminds me of climbing Val Martello, before stage 16 of the 2014 Giro, it was horrendous weather, for cycling, I think they possibly neutralised it on the Stelvio before changing their mind. Hammering down and cold. I was going up Val Martello, and someone was coming down. On a hairpin I heard her shout in a panic ‘Kalt, Kalt’ it sounded like.. . she didn’t shave any speed and rode straight into the temporary barriers, and flung onto a roof stationary ambulance. I always assumed her hands seized up from the cold, or at least when I came down 30mins later that is what I concluded. my friend reckoned she must have had double brake failure..

FWIW the 'old fashioned' solution to this is a chaincase. It only works with an IGH (pretty much like belts) and with the right lube on the chain you only need to be fiddling with it about once a year.

I have been thinking about this for my wife’s bike I have a spare Alfine, she’s sees bikes as transport only, the bike does little mileage but has a lonely life in the garden.

Perhaps one for another day this thread seems to have already drifted..