Fake brooks b17!

[lazydog]

Hi peeps,

has anyone come across fake Brooks B17s?


I ask because I'm wondering if I have a fake....

This saddle has a twisted nose piece. Looks like the stepped out bits that normally stop the nose from twisting aren't properly formed on one side allowing the twist. Wouldn't have though that it would have passed QC. The saddle is very uncomfortable and un-rideable due to the twist so I'm thinking of getting Brooks to repair it but wonder if they will if they think I have a fake. It's also more than two years old so probably not warrantied any more.

There's also a couple of differenced between it and my other B17.

On my non-twisted one, the underside of the copper rivets are distinctly copper and the "Made in England" stamp faces towards the rear of the saddle.

The the rivets on the underside of saddle with the twisted nose piece look black and possibly not copper and the "Made in England" stamp faces in the other direction.

Thoughts?


thanks



Steve

[simonineaston]

I've not come across a Brooks 'sexton' - that I've been aware of, that is ! but have had Brookses that have not been symetrical - not as bad as your example, mind... !

[Mick F]

I have Brooks Professionals on both my bikes.
Big copper rivets.

Also, the "Made in England" stamps face forwards on both saddles.
(just crooked my neck and looked)

[philvantwo]

Oh dear Mick F, get well soon. I had a 'notchy neck a few years back..........I was in agony for about 2 weeks.

[jimlews]

Have you tried slackening off the tension and trying to reposition the tension clip?

All parts seem to be available eg. from SJS. Not tremendously expensive eg. Clip £2.99 and a new nose in chrome is £2.49. They even have the brass rivets 99p ea.

If I remember correctly, Brucey was offering his riveting expertise a while ago (No pun intended).

EDIT
Try filing a small amount off the underside of a rivet to see if it is indeed copper. Just a scratch.

[rogerzilla]

QC is pretty hit or miss. I had one from the 80s that was twisted just like that.

[gregoryoftours]

I'd try sending the photos in an email to brooks, you never know they might replace to protect their reputation. It doesn't look like something that would happen through mistreatment. I'd also guess that it isn't fake, the leather looks the same thickness and the metal frame the same.

[simonhill]

Brooks are very helpful if you contact them at their UK repair place.

Be careful disassembling as it is under tension. Likewise reassembly is difficult without the hydraulic press that Brooks have.

Duplicate post, but a bit different.

[nsew]

That’s not a fake but the tension nut has been wound on quite a lot. I have the same saddle and recently replaced the bolt as it had cracked - not a job for the faint hearted but achievable once you get yourself into a 19th century industrial mindset . If I had the saddle I’d back the nut off to the beginning of the thread and employ a mallet and hard wood driver to straighten it up. Then re-tension exposing two or three threads. I once purchased a used Brooks from eBay with an un-photographed slight twist in the nose and the seller refused the return, so I cycled over to his house and it turned out he was an accommodating chap after all.

Hi peeps,

has anyone come across fake Brooks B17s?


I ask because I'm wondering if I have a fake....

This saddle has a twisted nose piece. Looks like the stepped out bits that normally stop the nose from twisting aren't properly formed on one side allowing the twist. Wouldn't have though that it would have passed QC. The saddle is very uncomfortable and un-rideable due to the twist so I'm thinking of getting Brooks to repair it but wonder if they will if they think I have a fake. It's also more than two years old so probably not warrantied any more.(

fk2.jpeg

fk3.jpeg


There's also a couple of differenced between it and my other B17.

On my non-twisted one, the underside of the copper rivets are distinctly copper and the "Made in England" stamp faces towards the rear of the saddle.

The the rivets on the underside of saddle with the twisted nose piece look black and possibly not copper and the "Made in England" stamp faces in the other direction.

rl1.jpeg


fk1.jpeg

Thoughts?


thanks



Steve

[Brucey]

copper rivets corrode to different colours depending on the conditions; copper forms a wide variety of hydrated and partially hydrated oxides and other compounds, of many different colours, ranging from orange through various shades of green to black. Both your saddles look genuine to me; they both have the factory (date) mark in the leather near the cantle plate.

The nosepiece normally sits on 'shoulders' cut into the sides of the shackle. If the nose of the saddle takes a knock from the side (amongst other things), the nosepiece flares slightly and then it can slip off the shackle shoulders on one side or the other, which then allows the nosepiece to twist at an alarming angle, which is what appears to have happened to your saddle.

The cure is to back the tension bolt off completely, and then to pry the tension bolt free of the nosepiece. Once this is done, the nosepiece can be 'squeezed' to the correct width, so that it will once again sit on the shackle shoulders snugly. This should then cure it. Whilst the shackle is out, you can file the corners on the shoulders a bit sharper if you like, which might help too.

However if the leather has deformed very unevenly, it may try and pull the saddle nose to one side all the time. I am told that the method then is to soak the saddle in water for several days (with no tension on it) and then to hold it in the shape you want whilst it dries out eg. by stuffing it with newspapers/strapping it. But I've never had to do that to one of my own saddles, so I've not BTDT.

cheers

[ebor62]

I have a Brooks B17 Champion brought from Wiggle with the same fault. I was rebuilding a frame and my 57 year old Pro was starting to look a bit tired so I bought the above saddle. I had it for about a month and was nicely broken in, when checking my bike before a 600k audax the next day found it twisted. One side of the tension shackle had snapped off allowing it to twist. As it was about 7pm I bought a cheapo from Halfords and rode in surprising comfort. Upon telling the tale to a club mate , he said he had one for sale, still in box. He had fitted it and ridden it twice but didn't find it comfortable. I bought it at a bargain price and fitted it, Rode it for about a month and the end came off the tension bolt. I had registered the first saddle with Brooks which extends the guarantee to 10 years but haven't had it repaired as I have lost confidence in the product. Don't want it breaking miles from home or away on tour. My Made in England faces forward and the underside of the rivets are copper but are much darker as don't get polished. I have never had a saddle problem in 60 years of riding and now get two in a few months. Need to decide if just unlucky or quality isn't what it used to be.

[rogerzilla]

The tensioning bolt is a poor design and will often turn woth the adjusting nut unless you hold it with pliers. This could twist the front, but I suspect it is often due to inconsistencies in the leather. It is a piece of dead cow, after all.

[jimlews]

I've also had the shoulder of the shackle/clip break off. Happened about 25 years ago on a titanium "swift" saddle. I replaced the shackle with a steel one from a defunct "pro" and have had no trouble since.

If the adjuster nut is 'galling' on the shackle as it is tightened (esp. with Ti) it can 'wind up the shackle as well and induce a twist which puts undue stress on one of the shoulders of the shackle/clip. A smear of grease on the nut - shackle interface is useful as is substituting the threaded 'pin' with one that has provision for an allan key at the nose.

[lazydog]

The cure is to back the tension bolt off completely, and then to pry the tension bolt free of the nosepiece. Once this is done, the nosepiece can be 'squeezed' to the correct width, so that it will once again sit on the shackle shoulders snugly. This should then cure it. Whilst the shackle is out, you can file the corners on the shoulders a bit sharper if you like, which might help too.

Thanks for all the help/suggestions I might give the above a go ( although the shoulder on the dropped side of the shackle doesn't look right - like it's rounded off ) and if all else fails, I'll get Brooks to repair it.

[Bonefishblues]

Looks like a Brooks Track Special to me - to sit level on the banking