Oprah - anybody staying up to watch?

[Pebble]

For me one issue is that we are only seeing one side, sometimes 2nd hand reports and without the context of alleged questions (which can make a massive difference when PR people are trying to cover every potential aspect).

Yes, the Royal Family can't really win on it. To turn round and deny any racism ever is firstly unrealistic and secondly won't play well in the court of public opinion. But we don't really know what happened, we have heard 'Meghan's truth' and we don't really know any other.

And then there is the definition of racism. There are academics who will tell you all white people are racist (see Robin DiAngelo’s White Fragility). This forum is mainly, and this thread, possibly almost exclusively, is older, white men - you (and me) are all racists by DiAngelo's theory.

And we just don't know what any comment was. All expectant parents, family and maybe even friends wonder who unborn children are going to take after? A grandfather's red hair? A mother's green eyes? A mixed race woman with a white husband tells how this been with her children in an article in today - as she says, it would be weird not to have wondered.

I think before I would cast any judgement I would want to know what had been said and in what context it had been said. Harry Meghan and their supporters always seem very quick to play the race card and for me they seem to have shouted wolf a few times too many.

At the moment my sympathies are very much with the royals, and that is an extremely rare side for me to take, probably the first time in my life that I have been on their side.

[merseymouth]

Morning all, It is very easy to play the racist card, with shouts of outrage at even the merest mention of ethnic diversity?
I'll relate an incident from a few years ago which involved my late father.
I had reason to visit his childhood stomping ground, south Manchester. We sought out his second childhood home? Gone, a single house chopped out of a terrace to allow access for a development.
His original home had already gone, it now being the foundation of the Mancunian Way! So much change disturbed him?
So he sought out his old school, which surprisingly was still full of life.
We were courteously invited in to have a look around by the Head Teacher, who was an elegant lady wearing a sari. It was a happy, buzzing place, will many children. My father certainly enjoyed the visit with all of the interaction.
But he made one comment whilst chatting with the Head which would certainly be cited as racist these days, when taken out of context that is.
His comment? "Well, the ethnic mix has certainly changed since I was here 70years ago, back then one would never have seen a coloured face, now it is almost impossible to see a white one!".
The demographics of the area was much changed in the intervening years.
This would label him racist in many eyes, but in the true context it was merely making an observation about the change in a society over the years.
I must point out that his passion in life was involving youth in athletics, at the Harriers more than at home, much to the displeasure of his wife!
Anyone who knows anything about grass roots athletics will fully understand the low incidence of racism at such a level, but as the Harriers were also an elite level club, all of the top GB athletes came there, names galore, all welcome.
The names and faces at his funeral told the real story, all mourned his passing, he was a man of his time, when the globe was painted pink.
We all must learn to hear not only the words but also to understand the context in which they are used!
The way questions are asked in Censuses and Surveys must be thought about properly, understand the diversity yes, separate society No! MM

[Oldjohnw]

It is so easy for white people in a majority white community to tell a black person that their experiences are not racist. The black person is the best judge. They might on occasion overstate it but bear in mind that as recently as their great great grandparents they were slaves, whilst the whole concept of the royal family is based on empire and colonies which derived much if not most of their wealth from slavery and subjugation.

[mjr]

Harry Meghan and their supporters always seem very quick to play the race card and for me they seem to have shouted wolf a few times too many.

At the moment my sympathies are very much with the royals, and that is an extremely rare side for me to take, probably the first time in my life that I have been on their side.

Her Majesty the Benevolent Dictator for Life and her cousin the Prime Minister will be glad to hear your reeducation is progressing well.

I'm actually more concerned by the allegations of denial of access to medical treatment and taking away of identity documents.

[Oldjohnw]

Harry Meghan and their supporters always seem very quick to play the race card and for me they seem to have shouted wolf a few times too many.

At the moment my sympathies are very much with the royals, and that is an extremely rare side for me to take, probably the first time in my life that I have been on their side.

Her Majesty the Benevolent Dictator for Life and her cousin the Prime Minister will be glad to hear your reeducation is progressing well.

I'm actually more concerned by the allegations of denial of access to medical treatment and taking away of identity documents.

Absolutely.

[Ben@Forest]

I'm actually more concerned by the allegations of denial of access to medical treatment and taking away of identity documents.

One of the papers detailed the number of times Meghan travelled to the US or Canada during her sojourn in the UK (including after marriage). It wasn't hugely frequent but it happened and if her papers were taken from her she seemed to be able to access them.

[Bonefishblues]

I'm actually more concerned by the allegations of denial of access to medical treatment and taking away of identity documents.

One of the papers detailed the number of times Meghan travelled to the US or Canada during her sojourn in the UK. It wasn't hugely frequent but it happened and if her papers were taken from her she seemed to be able to access them.

I hadn't picked this up in the story - exactly what is alleged?

[Pebble]

I'm actually more concerned by the allegations of denial of access to medical treatment and taking away of identity documents.

Was she actually denied medical treatment ? By the NHS ? they are an incredibly wealthy couple could she not have went private ?
What identity documents did she have confiscated ?

[thirdcrank]

Re the Society of Editors, it's occurred to me that within the last few days I've read an obituary of Bob Satchwell, the founder of the organisation.

It seems to be accepted that he played a big role in steering a course between total freedom of the press and heavy regulation.

[Oldjohnw]

She was, apparently and allegedly, denied counseling by the Palace and had her keys, passport and driving licence taken away by courtiers.

In the same way that white people appear to determine what is or isn't racism, it appears that men think they should determine what is and isn't misogyny.

[thirdcrank]

Only on the point of being denied counselling, I'm unclear how that might work. I can see that Buck House might refuse to provide it "on the rates" but I'm unclear how they might stop her arranging to see doctors; she wasn't detained there.

[Ben@Forest]

One of the papers detailed the number of times Meghan travelled to the US or Canada during her sojourn in the UK. It wasn't hugely frequent but it happened and if her papers were taken from her she seemed to be able to access them.

I hadn't picked this up in the story - exactly what is alleged?

She said she'd had her passport, driving licence and keys (I'm presuming car keys) taken away after becoming 'royal'. But in her time as a royal she had 13 unofficial trips/holidays abroad, either alone or with Harry.

One was a trip alone back to the USA for a 'baby shower' before her son was born. Even I, as non-royal watcher, remember the press coverage of that. I don't know whether she needed a passport or not, but either she had it or had no need of it.

[Oldjohnw]

Only on the point of being denied counselling, I'm unclear how that might work. I can see that Buck House might refuse to provide it "on the rates" but I'm unclear how they might stop her arranging to see doctors; she wasn't detained there.

I don't know and I doubt we will ever find out. The queen has already said it will be dealt with privately.

[Psamathe]

For me one issue is that we are only seeing one side, sometimes 2nd hand reports and without the context of alleged questions (which can make a massive difference when PR people are trying to cover every potential aspect).

Yes, the Royal Family can't really win on it. To turn round and deny any racism ever is firstly unrealistic and secondly won't play well in the court of public opinion. But we don't really know what happened, we have heard 'Meghan's truth' and we don't really know any other.

And then there is the definition of racism. There are academics who will tell you all white people are racist (see Robin DiAngelo’s White Fragility). This forum is mainly, and this thread, possibly almost exclusively, is older, white men - you (and me) are all racists by DiAngelo's theory.

And we just don't know what any comment was. All expectant parents, family and maybe even friends wonder who unborn children are going to take after? A grandfather's red hair? A mother's green eyes? A mixed race woman with a white husband tells how this been with her children in an article in today - as she says, it would be weird not to have wondered.

I think before I would cast any judgement I would want to know what had been said and in what context it had been said. Harry Meghan and their supporters always seem very quick to play the race card and for me they seem to have shouted wolf a few times too many.
....

I would agree. So much depends on the context and I can hypothesise contexts where the question could be quite valid and non-racist. Not suggesting this is the case but also we are hearing the question 3rd hand (the question was apparently not raised with Megan, so lots of loss of context).

Ian

[Psamathe]

One of the papers detailed the number of times Meghan travelled to the US or Canada during her sojourn in the UK. It wasn't hugely frequent but it happened and if her papers were taken from her she seemed to be able to access them.

I hadn't picked this up in the story - exactly what is alleged?

She said she'd had her passport, driving licence and keys (I'm presuming car keys) taken away after becoming 'royal'. But in her time as a royal she had 13 unofficial trips/holidays abroad, either alone or with Harry.

One was a trip alone back to the USA for a 'baby shower' before her son was born. Even I, as non-royal watcher, remember the press coverage of that. I don't know whether she needed a passport or not, but either she had it or had no need of it.

She is too quick to make all these allegations. To me it makes complete sense that she not drive her own car around if she is such a security risk. Is she trained to the same driving skills levels as assigned protection officers? Cynic in me says that had she been allowed to keep her licence and keys we'd be hearing how she was denied trained protection driving staff and she had to drive herself unprotected "unlike other Royals".

Removal of Passport is not unheard of. One employment I had we did a lot of Oil Pipeline Control System work in the Middle East and you were expected to go on-site to commission the system you developed and when you went there your passport was taken away and you stayed there until it was all signed off (even if problems requiring UK dev. work - you stayed there with no passport until all signed-off). n.b. I refused to go because of that (which got "interesting").

But also, I'd guess when she travels she does not queue for 6 hrs in the immigration line at Heathrow (or any other airport) lugging heavy bags through customs but is whisked through with aids dealing with all the officialdom. So why would she expect to be carrying her Passport around in her handbag?

Ian