Please identify the frame builder from images

[ALASTAIR MUIR]

[attachment=2]CE55942A-E344-[attachment=2]CE55942A-E344-47F3-8DC2-AF797A4A925D

I bought this a while back with no head badge or decals , bottom bracket stamped A 65 and same on forks
, Agrati stamp too.
I don’t know all the jargon.
Thanks for looking.

[KM2]

I would say it is a pre 1970’s frame built for 5 speed only as the underbracket guide is not original. Does it have any cable stop on the Down tube near the bracket. I can’t see one.
Nervex pro lugs, good quality but plate ends probably without a gear hanger.
Maybe not mass production because of the lugs but end indicate early 60’s???
I think you would be lucky to find the maker.

[peetee]

Whatever it is it’s more than likely to have been modified at some stage. Bosses for a water bottle on the seat tube of a vintage frame are almost unheard of.
Do you have a better photo of the seat tube lug and the top of the stays and the rear brake bridge?

[PT1029]

From the fork crown picture;
531 fork blades (can just see the sticker on RH fork blade)
Components may/may not be original period as the frame:
Photo with front wheel:
Looks like a Super Champion rin sticker (so 1980's)
Sun Tour Power Shift ratcher gear levers (1980's poss late 70's?)
Front gear looks like 1980's Sun Tour.
Saddle looks like a Brookes Swallow (don't throw it away!)
Chainset/rear gear a lot more recent.
Black stem and bars will be quite recent (is the stem set too high?).

Oh, the answer is there all along, picture of the whole bike, "The Flying Scot"
Brief description here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Scot_(bicycles)

[jimlews]

Hope this helps:

https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/c ... ray-david/

[Vorpal]

Lucky find!

More info & history, plus tips on identifying the manufacture date:

https://www.flying-scot.com/core/welcome.html

Might be worth checking Classic Lightweights, Retrobike, etc., as well.

[peetee]

Oh, the answer is there all along, picture of the whole bike, "The Flying Scot"

Ah, and there’s me thinking those decals were spurious!

[jimlews]

OP says:
"Bought with no head badge or decals"

So, is it a Scot or a Sassenach in a kilt?

[Ugly]

Flying Scot frames were built by Rattray's of Glasgow there is a very good site dedicated to the marque.

[JohnW]

Flying Scot frames were built by Rattray's of Glasgow there is a very good site dedicated to the marque.

The rear drop-out is an "AGRATI".
This suggests to me a hand-built frame from the late 1950s/early 1960s.
I know that Pennine Cycles incorporated AGRATI drop-outs during that period.
The fork crown suggests to me to be very early 1960s - but I'm not claiming to be right.
I didn't have a frame with AGRATI components, but I do remember them.
I'm no expert - but I do remember them.

[thirdcrank]

JohnW

From Whitaker and Mapplebeck

...Benelux, Agrati or Campag (extra cost) ends ...

https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/c ... applebeck/

Also on Classic Lightweights there's this

One of the giveaway identifications for Rattray-built bikes is the strengthening piece on the inside of the fork blades from the crown down for about 5cm.

https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/c ... ray-david/

That's not visible on the pic in the OP

[jimlews]

We need to know the frame number. That will give a good indication of whether it's a 'Scot' or by some other builder.
Whatever it is, whoever built it, it's a pretty nice bicycle.
Pity about those bottle bosses.

[Vorpal]

https://www.flying-scot.com/rattray/sco ... mbers.html suggests that it might be frame number 65 from 1951. The numbers are typically the other way around (65A instead of A65), but they appear to be hand stamped, so putting something a little too far over would be an easy mistake to make & consequently swapping them an easy fix.

There are other clues (see the link) that might help verify the date & provenance.

Here is 64A https://www.flying-scot.com/frame_pages/frame_64a.html

Perhaps you could contact the owner of the website, and see if he can put you in touch with the owner of 64A for a side-by-side comparison? Otherwise, you could try to find the person creditted for the photo of 64A?

The website is 10 years old, but the contact info may still be okay.


Good luck!

[colin54]

There's an active Flying Scot group on the flikr photo site.
28 pages of photo's, if you click on a photo' you sometimes get some comments below it.
There's a 'sticky' at the top of the discussion section about frame number identification as well.
https://www.flickr.com/groups/1402716@N ... 440976582/
Good luck with your research.
Here's a picture of an 'A' suffix fork crown, plenty more frame numbers amongst all the other pic's.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tk_photos ... 02716@N22/
Note the strengthening bits down the inside of the forks in this picture, as mentioned up-thread by Third Crank quoting the Classic Lightweights David Rattray article

[JohnW]

JohnW

From Whitaker and Mapplebeck

...Benelux, Agrati or Campag (extra cost) ends ...

https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/c ... applebeck/

Also on Classic Lightweights there's this

One of the giveaway identifications for Rattray-built bikes is the strengthening piece on the inside of the fork blades from the crown down for about 5cm.

https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/c ... ray-david/

That's not visible on the pic in the OP

Thanks TC.
My Pennines have all had Campag ends - doesn't stop motorists from trying to drive into your saddlebag though!