what the heck is going on??

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
Jdsk
Posts: 24478
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: what the heck is going on??

Post by Jdsk »

Stevek76 wrote:Road user charging would also be a significant help as this can better target where cars do the most damage (cities, over £1/km). This is something that has resurfaced as a concept again and I suspect it might actually gain some traction this time, not least because technology is in a far better place (few cars don't have GPS built in) and the treasury is acutely aware of the hole that fuel duty will leave.

Yes, as with everything to do with transport it's very difficult to achieve the desired changes without an integrated policy.

IfS: "A road map for motoring taxation"
https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/14407

Jonathan
kwackers
Posts: 15643
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: what the heck is going on??

Post by kwackers »

In my opinion, in some ways the reduction of subsidies is a non-story.
I certainly have no issues reducing the maximum purchase price it applies to, I do think it's hard to justify expensive EV's receiving subsidies especially as many are bought as company cars and get more than their fair share in subsidies via that route anyway.

I'm not even particularly bothered by the reduction in subsidies because I honestly think that cars cost what people are prepared to pay and I'd be surprised if any end up being more expensive (I've noticed a few dealers are already offering to honour the current subsidy out of their own pocket).

My biggest niggle is that fuel duty once again remains unchanged whilst EV's in theory at least have become more expensive.
That IMO is the wrong message.

By all means reduce or remove the subsidy, but let's also increase fuel duty and put more money into public transport.
Jdsk
Posts: 24478
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: what the heck is going on??

Post by Jdsk »

kwackers wrote:My biggest niggle is that fuel duty once again remains unchanged whilst EV's in theory at least have become more expensive.
That IMO is the wrong message.

Yes. wrong and inconsistent.

kwackers wrote:... but let's also increase fuel duty and put more money into public transport.

Agree with both of those. And we still need that integrated transport policy.

Jonathan
Stevek76
Posts: 2084
Joined: 28 Jul 2015, 11:23am

Re: what the heck is going on??

Post by Stevek76 »

So you want to add an extra tax specifically to IC cars?
Right...
And you consider that to be realistic? Anyone who tries that stands no chance of being re-elected.
It's simple really, we won't give up our cars. If that's what you're holding out for then good luck and let us know how you get on.


I don't know why you keep thinking that's my aim? I own and use a car. And no, not a specific tax, tools already exist via fuel duty and VED. Labour managed to get re-elected three times upping fuel duty, the 'motorist vote' isn't anywhere near as valuable as it's made out to be by the IEA/TPA and the various other fossil fuel funded lobbyists.

There is scope for additional charging where cars do the most damage, i.e. cities, much of which already exists (parking permits, which could be easily weighted more heavily against the largest, highest consumption vehicles) as well as the little used tools of congestion charges and workplace parking levies, the latter having been very successfully used by nottingham.

Jdsk wrote:But it would also be possible to do that by subsidising the charging infrastructure...


I can see value in that, particularly in progressing the rapid charging technology.
The contents of this post, unless otherwise stated, are opinions of the author and may actually be complete codswallop
JohnW
Posts: 6667
Joined: 6 Jan 2007, 9:12pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: what the heck is going on??

Post by JohnW »

kwackers wrote: 21 Mar 2021, 10:42am............. let's also increase fuel duty and put more money into public transport.
Absolutely kwackers, and the planet may remain habitable for a bit longer - but how on earth are you going to challenge the religion of motoring? - adherents to that religion don't even understand that there's an alternative, nor that it matters.
User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 19793
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: what the heck is going on??

Post by [XAP]Bob »

People don’t claim 20-80% charging, because you’re better off getting to single digit %age anyway - the battery will charge faster from emptier - I can add 80% range in 40-45 minutes on my car.

That means that the one long journey I take regularly now takes 90minutes longer than it did with an ICE, but with an ICE we used to stop for food anyway, so it actually makes ~45 minutes difference.

But that’s a handful of journeys in a year, the vast majority of the time it’s charged at home, though there are options which would have it charged at shops or other regular destinations if I couldn’t charge at home.
The advantage of charging at home or at work is that the charge can be slow - who cares if it takes eight hours to charge, I sleep that long, and work that long anyway.

With the EV being a more modern car as well I can actually drive a substantial portion of the long drive, which I couldn’t do in the ICE (disability sucks, driver aids make a huge difference).
I can also talk to people in the car, because the vastly reduced noise means I don’t need other people to use a microphone and TLoop to be able to hear them.

We charge the car “on the road” probably ~15 times a year, generally twice on the way to/from my parents, and once on the way to/from an annual reunion.

They are the future, whether we run hydrogen fuel cells, metal air batteries (with Al an interesting option), lithium ion batteries, some as yet unknown super capacitor technology or a combination of the above...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Jdsk
Posts: 24478
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: what the heck is going on??

Post by Jdsk »

ncutler wrote: 19 Mar 2021, 9:42am
Stradageek wrote:Maybe we need a touch of the Schumacher 'Small is beautiful' and re-organise ourselves into local communities with local facilities and local jobs. Families can then stay together, we can all walk to the shops etc. Maybe the homeworking shift is a way of starting this?
Agree. Look at the Paris proposals for the 15 minute city.
10 minutes for Seoul:
https://www.globalconstructionreview.co ... -in-seoul/

Jonathan
JohnW
Posts: 6667
Joined: 6 Jan 2007, 9:12pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: what the heck is going on??

Post by JohnW »

Stradageek wrote: 19 Mar 2021, 8:39am How about a slight change of tack. Rather than looking at how we can find substitute modes of transport why not look about how we can remove both the need and desire for all this travel?

50 years ago there were far fewer cars and we all survived?

Maybe we need a touch of the Schumacher 'Small is beautiful' and re-organise ourselves into local communities with local facilities and local jobs. Families can then stay together, we can all walk to the shops etc. Maybe the homeworking shift is a way of starting this?
Absolutely - +1 to that.
Jdsk
Posts: 24478
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: what the heck is going on??

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 5 Jan 2022, 10:58am
ncutler wrote: 19 Mar 2021, 9:42am
Stradageek wrote:Maybe we need a touch of the Schumacher 'Small is beautiful' and re-organise ourselves into local communities with local facilities and local jobs. Families can then stay together, we can all walk to the shops etc. Maybe the homeworking shift is a way of starting this?
Agree. Look at the Paris proposals for the 15 minute city.
10 minutes for Seoul:
https://www.globalconstructionreview.co ... -in-seoul/
NB date.

"The public will also benefit from a new commitment to access green space or water within a 15-minute walk from their home, such as woodlands, wetlands, parks and rivers."

"Ambitious roadmap for a cleaner, greener country":
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/ambi ... er-country

Jonathan
pwa
Posts: 17357
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: what the heck is going on??

Post by pwa »

Jdsk wrote: 31 Jan 2023, 2:55pm
"Ambitious roadmap for a cleaner, greener country":
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/ambi ... er-country

Jonathan
Not much of an ambition about wanting everyone to be within 15 minutes of green space, really. I have never lived in a place where there wasn't a green space within five minutes, walking.
Tangled Metal
Posts: 9505
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: what the heck is going on??

Post by Tangled Metal »

Where I work most ppl live 15 minutes walk away. A few live further but car share. I live the furthest but train and bike it. Overall everyone could walk, cycle or public transport their way to work but not everyone does.

I must admit it's an unusual company in the way most employees live very close to work and each other. It's very much like the old mill workers. There's a few similar companies on the industrial estate like ours too!

Imho that's the way forward. Ppl living in walling distance of their work. Or home working. I saw a job to apply for that came up as local to my area. It was for a company based in the other end of England to me. Home working but jobs sites marked it as local to anyone in the UK!
Post Reply