Cycle Law -Filtering ?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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UrbanManc
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Cycle Law -Filtering ?

Postby UrbanManc » 6 Jul 2008, 10:30am

Scenario : Stationary traffic at traffic lights , can cyclists filter
through on the left to the front of the queue ?

The only reference I can find on this is that you may overtake on the
inside if the traffic on the right is going slower than you.

Anyone know the official line on this, quotes and reference would be
appreciated.

yakdiver
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Postby yakdiver » 6 Jul 2008, 10:49am

can cyclists filter through on the left to the front of the queue ?

So while your "cycling through" the lights change car along side of you turns left and your another casualty or worse dead there has been quite a few like this

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UrbanManc
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Postby UrbanManc » 6 Jul 2008, 10:51am

numbnuts wrote:
can cyclists filter through on the left to the front of the queue ?

So while your "cycling through" the lights change car along side of you turns left and your another casualty or worse dead there has been quite a few like this



Not what I asked Mr Nuts , but I appreciate your contribution .

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Graham
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Postby Graham » 6 Jul 2008, 11:13am

I remember at least one previous topic discussing this.
I have had a quick search, but it hasn't popped up, probably because there are no specific keywords to home-in-on
My (entirely fallible) memory is that :-
- It is a legitimate and legal manoeuvre.
- It can be risky, so you have to be aware and act accordingly.

Hopefully, someone more knowledgeable will come-along soon.

gruntius
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Postby gruntius » 6 Jul 2008, 11:16am

This may not answer your query either, just my two penneth...

I always sit in the traffic and wait for the lights like everyone else in the queue, the reason is that these car drivers would have had to pass you once and you wouldn't want to antagonise them by making them pass you again. You won't really lose that much time and can get a handy drag to get back up to top speed.

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UrbanManc
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Postby UrbanManc » 6 Jul 2008, 11:21am

Graham wrote:I remember at least one previous topic discussing this.
I have had a quick search, but it hasn't popped up, probably because there are no specific keywords to home-in-on
My (entirely fallible) memory is that :-
- It is a legitimate and legal manoeuvre.
- It can be risky, so you have to be aware and act accordingly.

Hopefully, someone more knowledgeable will come-along soon.


Cheers for that , I think it's a legal manoeuvre too , I am aware of the risks and I’m experienced to know how to handle it.

The reason I'm asking is because a growing number of drivers as soon as they see a cyclist filtering through will deliberately steer into the kerb to block.

Now as the post just above points out ... filtering annoys drivers , but who cares , if it's a legal move it's cyclists that should be antagonised that they are being blocked ... NOT car drivers.

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UrbanManc
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Postby UrbanManc » 6 Jul 2008, 11:22am

gruntius wrote:You won't really lose that much time and can get a handy drag to get back up to top speed.


There's a set of lights near me where if you stayed in the queue you would loose at least 30minutes of your life everytime :?
Last edited by UrbanManc on 6 Jul 2008, 3:07pm, edited 1 time in total.

keepontriking
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Re: Cycle Law -Filtering ?

Postby keepontriking » 6 Jul 2008, 11:34am

UrbanManc wrote:Scenario : Stationary traffic at traffic lights , can cyclists filter
through on the left to the front of the queue ?
Anyone know the official line on this, quotes and reference would be
appreciated.


I understand it is allowable, but the HC seems to have some contradictions.
HC 72 says:
"Do not ride on the inside of vehicles signalling or slowing down to turn left"
It does not say you cannot if the situation is otherwise.
But in HC 163 it says:
"Only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so."
...and then goes on to say
"if the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left." - nothing about signals here!

Personally, I believe it is far safer to go up the outside of a traffic queue and then take the lane a 2-3 vehicles from the front of the queue.
Drivers use their right hand mirrors a lot more than their left, where you may also fall into a blind spot.
John Franklin in Cyclecraft states:
...it is usually foolish to creep up the inside of queues at signals, as you will not be easily seen by drivers.

That's good enough for me.

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UrbanManc
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Re: Cycle Law -Filtering ?

Postby UrbanManc » 6 Jul 2008, 11:43am

keepontriking wrote:
UrbanManc wrote:Scenario : Stationary traffic at traffic lights , can cyclists filter
through on the left to the front of the queue ?
Anyone know the official line on this, quotes and reference would be
appreciated.


I understand it is allowable, but the HC seems to have some contradictions.
HC 72 says:
"Do not ride on the inside of vehicles signalling or slowing down to turn left"
It does not say you cannot if the situation is otherwise.
But in HC 163 it says:
"Only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so."
...and then goes on to say
"if the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left." - nothing about signals here!

Personally, I believe it is far safer to go up the outside of a traffic queue and then take the lane a 2-3 vehicles from the front of the queue.
Drivers use their right hand mirrors a lot more than their left, where you may also fall into a blind spot.
John Franklin in Cyclecraft states:
...it is usually foolish to creep up the inside of queues at signals, as you will not be easily seen by drivers.

That's good enough for me.


Yea , it's as clear as mud :shock:

The outside line in my case is far more risky, two very narrow lanes with large oncoming busses and trucks.

Every situation needs to be assessed , there are queues of traffic that hardly move at all, an example near me, a 1 mile queue in rush hour the lights have a short 'green' time so it's unreasonable for me to sit in that queue and if I attempted to ride on the outside I would find myself trapped with no escape route.

So .... it's filtering is a legal manourvre then, and perfectly safe in static traffic ..... :) , or should we wait for someone with the rule book and the 'in black and white ' definative answer :? , or doesn't it exist :(

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UrbanManc
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Postby UrbanManc » 6 Jul 2008, 12:02pm

Here's an extract from a rant in a local ( internet ) newspaper ( Manchester Evening News ) .



Ive just come back from salford down the A6 so you should tell those cyclists who ride down the white line that they should ride in the gutter? most cyclists i see usually ride either down the nearside of traffic or down the white line...either way they usually put car drivers in a bad position i try and stop as near to the nearside kerb as possible to stop cyclists comming down the inside at traffic lights or junctions ,they are a pain

So , it's typical driver behaviour and a sign of the contempt many drivers hold against cyclists.

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Ben Lovejoy
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Postby Ben Lovejoy » 6 Jul 2008, 12:17pm

The law is very unclear, but my view is it's generally safer to filter up the outside rather than the inside: you're more visible and, due to motorcycles, it's more expected.

Obviously you need to be cautious past right-hand turns, and in very bad traffic where people may decide to give up and do a U-turn. I'm happier when there's oncoming traffic as drivers are then less likely to pull out.

Ben
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UrbanManc
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Postby UrbanManc » 6 Jul 2008, 12:26pm

Ben Lovejoy wrote:The law is very unclear, but my view is it's generally safer to filter up the outside rather than the inside: you're more visible and, due to motorcycles, it's more expected.

Obviously you need to be cautious past right-hand turns, and in very bad traffic where people may decide to give up and do a U-turn. I'm happier when there's oncoming traffic as drivers are then less likely to pull out.

Ben


I think its dependent on the situation, the scenario I described the inside lane is far safer , you have an escape route - the pavement.

If I attempted to ride on the outside I would be in the oncoming lane with no way back into my own lane ( on the left ) and would end up being dragged down the road by a truck doing 40mph ( in a 30 mph area ).

Then of course I've also witnessed drivers getting fed up in the queue and pulling out without warning and racing to take a right hand turn to take a diversion.

On the left you have a safe refuge , on the right you could end up in serious s*** .

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Postby Ben Lovejoy » 6 Jul 2008, 12:39pm

In London, it's generally the opposite: there are high kerbs and often railings for the pavements, so the escape-route in that direction is rarely available.
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Postby drossall » 6 Jul 2008, 2:25pm

The Highway Code is curiously unclear but, although I am not a great practitioner of filtering, it is obviously legal. Please note that this is different from "advisable in all circumstances", which is emphatically not what I am saying. In law, as far as I can see:
  • In normal traffic, a bike is part of the single lane of traffic, not something that should keep unusually to the left; there is no instruction to bikes to keep to the side of the road other than the general injunction to all vehicles to keep left. Please note that this is the underlying law, not a comprehensive guide to road positioning for cyclists!
  • Motorcyclists are clearly allowed to filter - rule 88 - even when the traffic is moving (slowly), so why not bikes?
  • The point of saying that bikes should not go up the side of long vehicles - rule 73 - is surely that they could be moving up a queue in this way (and anyway that rule is advice not law).
  • What's the point of ASLs if bikes can't get to them?

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UrbanManc
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Postby UrbanManc » 6 Jul 2008, 2:54pm

drossall wrote:The Highway Code is curiously unclear but, although I am not a great practitioner of filtering, it is obviously legal. Please note that this is different from "advisable in all circumstances", which is emphatically not what I am saying. In law, as far as I can see:
  • In normal traffic, a bike is part of the single lane of traffic, not something that should keep unusually to the left; there is no instruction to bikes to keep to the side of the road other than the general injunction to all vehicles to keep left. Please note that this is the underlying law, not a comprehensive guide to road positioning for cyclists!
  • Motorcyclists are clearly allowed to filter - rule 88 - even when the traffic is moving (slowly), so why not bikes?
  • The point of saying that bikes should not go up the side of long vehicles - rule 73 - is surely that they could be moving up a queue in this way (and anyway that rule is advice not law).
  • What's the point of ASLs if bikes can't get to them?


Yep, that's good enough for me , there is certainly no instruction saying you must not filter on the left.

So any motorist that deliberately blocks my path upon seeing me filtering through is purposely 'blocking the highway' and is guilty of an offence.

Cheers for the advice.