Cycling UK Forum

glucas wrote: ↑28 Apr 2021, 1:34pm

drossall wrote: ↑28 Apr 2021, 12:43pm

KTHSullivan wrote: ↑27 Apr 2021, 11:41amPersonally I prefer Meths. First thing out of the pannier/backpack at camp is the stove, brew on, then the tent etc goes up.

I had to read that twice, as I've always taken great care to prevent the tent going up when I light the stove.

horizon wrote: ↑28 Apr 2021, 1:38pm

drossall wrote: ↑28 Apr 2021, 12:43pm

KTHSullivan wrote: ↑27 Apr 2021, 11:41amPersonally I prefer Meths. First thing out of the pannier/backpack at camp is the stove, brew on, then the tent etc goes up.

I had to read that twice, as I've always taken great care to prevent the tent going up when I light the stove.

Which brings us neatly to the question, "Which would you rather use inside your tent: a meths Trangia, a gas Trangia or another gas stove?".

I avoid if possible using a stove in a tent, although admittedly I have done so on a few occasions. Once saw the result of a chap that decided to top up his Trangia meths burner while it was still hot. Not a pretty sight!

I don't know why, but I'm reminded of the old joke - How do you make a cat go Woof?...

Most of my uk tours are for a week or ten days so I tend to take enough fuel for the duration of the tour. I normally carry my dry food too oats in zipbags for breakfast, cous cous sachets and noodles with sardines in tomato sauce for dinner. Pasta in sauce sachets. Dry pasta cous cous and rice. Brew tackle, peanuts flapjack . I tend to call at a shop at some point in the day and buy milk, biscuits, water if not available enroute something to go with my evening meal, and fruit. Foraging at mealtimes too . Nettles are a favourite at this time of year Make the dinner into a decent meal.
I tend to avoid towns and wild camp, I don't mind carrying the weight which gets lighter everyday but that's not for everyone.

horizon wrote: ↑28 Apr 2021, 1:38pm

drossall wrote: ↑28 Apr 2021, 12:43pm

KTHSullivan wrote: ↑27 Apr 2021, 11:41amPersonally I prefer Meths. First thing out of the pannier/backpack at camp is the stove, brew on, then the tent etc goes up.

I had to read that twice, as I've always taken great care to prevent the tent going up when I light the stove.

Which brings us neatly to the question, "Which would you rather use inside your tent: a meths Trangia, a gas Trangia or another gas stove?".

Meths every time.

I find another advantage of watering down the meths is you don't get the big flaring type flame out the top of the Trangia.
So I'll happily cook in the tent porch with mine if the weathers iffy.

YMMV ..........

Tigerbiten wrote: ↑29 Apr 2021, 11:28am I find another advantage of watering down the meths is you don't get the big flaring type flame out the top of the Trangia.
So I'll happily cook in the tent porch with mine if the weathers iffy.

YMMV ..........

How much water do you put in?
I’m wondering if I don’t put enough in.

You'll commonly hear 10%.

Trangia recommend a maximum of 15%:
https://trangia.se/wp-content/uploads/2 ... -stove.pdf

NB not all commercial alcohol products are the same, and some users vary the mix with ambient temperature.

Jonathan

I have found over the years that using the simmer ring on a Trangia burner reduces the amount of soot formed on aluminium pans quite substantially; obviously with a dramatic increase in cooking/warming time. I also have a set of Titanium pans that I use on a Trangia burner that do not soot up whatsoever. I consider in the later scenario is it due to the different coefficients of heat transfer in the metals. Titanium is (20Wm/K)* whereas Aluminium (164Wm/K)**. Obviously Ti transfers less heat per unit area, as a consequence the surface temperature of the pan is probably held above the dew/condensation point of the products of combustion.

*Average dependent upon composition.

** Duralumin.

KTHSullivan wrote: ↑27 Apr 2021, 11:41am Gas can loose performance dependent upon ambient temperature and gas blend.
Performance of gas cartridges can taper off if they are near empty.
In heavy weather a gas flame will blow out before a Meths one.

These points only really apply when comparing a Trangia 27 meths with a standard canister top gas stove.

The Trangia gas burner can be used with the gas canister upside down (after having warmed up), giving a liquid gas feed, and this means that neither of the first two points apply. Both problems are because when the canister is used upright, the propane fraction of the gas mix in the canister has been used up by the time the canister is much more than half used, leaving nearly pure butane that's only much good over about 15°.

Similarly, the flame of a Trangia gas adapter is as well protected from the wind in a T27 as is that of the meths burner.

---oooOOOooo---

On the subject of watering the meths, it should be obvious that you should water the meths at the point of use, rather than dose your meths container with water.
The suitable amount of water is temperature dependent, and it wouldn't do to find your meths doesn't burn properly because the weather was colder than normal, and you'd put the normal amount of water in. If you add water in the burner, should you add too much water, you can add extra neat meths to compensate, and all you'll lose is anything that has to be tipped out of the burner to make room.

My meths bottle is 750 ml in size.
When it almost empty, I put 500 ml of meths in and then almost fill it up with water.
This puts its right at the limit of what works and it can be a bit iffy to light.
But it is good if you want to simmer stuff.

Luck .......

These points only really apply when comparing a Trangia 27 meths with a standard canister top gas stove.

The Trangia gas burner can be used with the gas canister upside down (after having warmed up), giving a liquid gas feed, and this means that neither of the first two points apply. Both problems are because when the canister is used upright, the propane fraction of the gas mix in the canister has been used up by the time the canister is much more than half used, leaving nearly pure butane that's only much good over about 15°.

Similarly, the flame of a Trangia gas adapter is as well protected from the wind in a T27 as is that of the meths burner.

I believe that the OP was asking for experiential considerations of meths versus gas.

(1) My Trangia gas burner will extinguish more readily in heavy weather than the meths version. (That's is why it's no longer used)
(2) It would be impossible to use a Trangia gas burner with the cartridge inverted as it would simply fall over.
(3) Using a Trangia gas burner with a inverted cartridge would imbue torsion on the gas lead; this is regarded as potentially problematical if one was to read the supplied gas burner instructions.
(4) The torsion applied if the burner happened to be used inverted would disable the ability of the burner assembly to sit squarely in its spring loaded pocket.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xazkdrep2nv90 ... 9.pdf?dl=0

KTHSullivan wrote: ↑4 May 2021, 9:49am
(2) It would be impossible to use a Trangia gas burner with the cartridge inverted as it would simply fall over.
(3) Using a Trangia gas burner with a inverted cartridge would imbue torsion on the gas lead; this is regarded as potentially problematical if one was to read the supplied gas burner instructions.
(4) The torsion applied if the burner happened to be used inverted would disable the ability of the burner assembly to sit squarely in its spring loaded pocket.

Oh. This is interesting news, 'cause I've never found any problem inverting the can on either my Trangia gas conversion or my Primus Gravity gas stove. I just pick up the can and, errrr, invert it. It needs something as a prop, obviously, but we are not in the realm of rocket engineering there.
Also presumably "impossible" is giving the can a good shake when it's getting to the very end, though that's never been an issue either.

As long as there's a pre-heat loop on the stove head (there is on the Trangia burner) this shouldn't cause any unwarranted flame-thrower action.

If we're really getting carried too far along with the letter of the instructions one should never cook inside a tent, but if it's an episode of When Midges Attack, to hell with that...

Pete.