Cycling UK Forum

y horizon » 17 Jul 2022, 10:05pm

Norman H wrote: ↑6 Jul 2022, 3:55pm
I can't really comment on durability as it's only been used for three nights so far.
I might have said this upthread but a lightweight air mattress is one of those products that has super credentials - it really is the answer to your prayers - but fails spectacularly further down the line. This means that the mountains of glowing reviews simply aren't worth the webpage they are printed on. And that makes buying one tricky as you don't know what people are experiencing after a degree of usage. I'm struggling to think of another product that has such great initial promise and such an appalling outcome. So, basically, no matter how good it appears at first sight, it is just a wind up.

Just worked out - my Nemo Tensor Insulated has now been used for around 195 nights without issue, so they don't all fail.

RobinS wrote: ↑20 Jul 2022, 8:47am

y horizon » 17 Jul 2022, 10:05pm

Norman H wrote: ↑6 Jul 2022, 3:55pm
I can't really comment on durability as it's only been used for three nights so far.
I might have said this upthread but a lightweight air mattress is one of those products that has super credentials - it really is the answer to your prayers - but fails spectacularly further down the line. This means that the mountains of glowing reviews simply aren't worth the webpage they are printed on. And that makes buying one tricky as you don't know what people are experiencing after a degree of usage. I'm struggling to think of another product that has such great initial promise and such an appalling outcome. So, basically, no matter how good it appears at first sight, it is just a wind up.

Just worked out - my Nemo Tensor Insulated has now been used for around 195 nights without issue, so they don't all fail.

Yes, not all doom and gloom!
I've roughly calculated the cost of my three failed mats (Two bought, one warranty replacement) over about 15 years, worked out at 60p a night. None of the failures was very spectacular, they were all usable till the end of the tour and the last one for a couple of short tours after the fault appeared. I'm hoping the current design last longer, if not, I'll buy another,

RobinS wrote: ↑20 Jul 2022, 8:47am Just worked out - my Nemo Tensor Insulated has now been used for around 195 nights without issue, so they don't all fail.

I'm currently using a bog-standard Thermarest that I bought (already used) on this forum some time ago. Again, no problems so far, just good, reliable service. So I'm very torn as to what to think. On the basis of the Thermarest I was thinking of buying a Thermarest Trail Pro:

https://www.tauntonleisure.com/sleep-eq ... gKRqPD_BwE

If it is indeed as rugged as they claim then I think it is well worth the £100 quid or so. It may be that they are actually now getting things right. I do hope so.

RobinS wrote: ↑20 Jul 2022, 8:47am

y horizon » 17 Jul 2022, 10:05pm

Norman H wrote: ↑6 Jul 2022, 3:55pm
I can't really comment on durability as it's only been used for three nights so far.
I might have said this upthread but a lightweight air mattress is one of those products that has super credentials - it really is the answer to your prayers - but fails spectacularly further down the line. This means that the mountains of glowing reviews simply aren't worth the webpage they are printed on. And that makes buying one tricky as you don't know what people are experiencing after a degree of usage. I'm struggling to think of another product that has such great initial promise and such an appalling outcome. So, basically, no matter how good it appears at first sight, it is just a wind up.

Just worked out - my Nemo Tensor Insulated has now been used for around 195 nights without issue, so they don't all fail.

Presumably that's this, or at least a previous version of the same?
https://ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/202 ... eping-mat/

Expensive, but not wildly so in comparison to some of the competition, and if it is reliable as you say, then that combination of 4.2 R value and just 495g weight make it good value.

Bmblbzzz wrote: ↑28 Jul 2022, 4:59pm

RobinS wrote: ↑20 Jul 2022, 8:47am Just worked out - my Nemo Tensor Insulated has now been used for around 195 nights without issue, so they don't all fail.

Presumably that's this, or at least a previous version of the same?
https://ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/202 ... eping-mat/

Expensive, but not wildly so in comparison to some of the competition, and if it is reliable as you say, then that combination of 4.2 R value and just 495g weight make it good value.

Just had a look, thanks for the link, it does look like a decent spec, again not a tube design. I also looked up the manufacturers warranty period - Lifetime - so the younger you are the better the value, but if you do a fair bit of camping, it isn't outrageously expensive if it's going to be the last mat you buy.

Yes, that's the current version of mine - I think mine is a 2017 one. My wife had a one year earlier version, which did have an issue - it kept getting microscopic holes at the point the internal baffles attached, but it was not a catastrophic failure. In the course of a three month tour I had to patch about 4 leaks, but it remained fully usable. On return home it was replaced without quibble, and what impressed me was that after it was replaced and sent back to the manufacturer (by Ultralightoutdoorgear) the manufacturer contacted us for a detailed description of exactly how it had failed, temperature, conditions etc. so they could ensure it never happened again. This was in complete contrast to Thermarest - on an earlier tour we had two of their lightweight mats delaminate, making them unusable - they were replaced under warranty, but Thermarest refused point blank to even discuss the failure, or the likelihood of repeat failures. It was then that I sold the untrustworthy replacement Thermarests and went with Nemo.

RobinS wrote: ↑3 Aug 2022, 7:52am On return home it was replaced without quibble, and what impressed me was that after it was replaced and sent back to the manufacturer (by Ultralightoutdoorgear) the manufacturer contacted us for a detailed description of exactly how it had failed, temperature, conditions etc. so they could ensure it never happened again. This was in complete contrast to Thermarest - on an earlier tour we had two of their lightweight mats delaminate, making them unusable - they were replaced under warranty, but Thermarest refused point blank to even discuss the failure, or the likelihood of repeat failures.

Generally it appears you can get a replacement quite easily and that seems to apply to all the manufacturers (obviously to their credit). But someone did once say that this could be a deliberate strategy: you make several thousand, you know there is a flaw, you happily replace the ones (perhaps very few) that go wrong, they are cheap to make
and you still have a good profit. The consumer is happy (no quibble replacement and a new mat).

So what's not to like? Really just the practicalities: the mat can fail on tour, in the night. You also have the hassle of posting it back or whatever you do with it. It would be somewhat specious to compare this situation with buying brakes, but you can see what I mean.

I think on the basis of yours and others' posts I will invest in a new mat - forewarned is forearmed. I'm not convinced there is much difference between them in terms of reliability (as I said upthread, my Thermarest is excellent). For cycle camping, the concept is just too good to ignore so i will persevere and continue to read others' reviews and experiences.

well I suppose on the basis of "if it fails they replace" - so effectively a single mat for life (as someone upthread may have said) they are maybe a decent bet as long as you don't tour out of the country with one.
Anyone ever had any trouble/quibbles getting the free replcement?
What proof that it's yours do you have to produce?
A receipt?

Do you always get the same standard/price-point of mat back?

Where do you send to - place you originally bought from or their own UK representatives?

I assume that buying one second-hand is a very bad idea as you wouldn't be covered by the free replacement offer?

sorry for all the questions, just wary


edit - hang about - a quick google just suggests that they only offer a 5 year guarantee on their mats - related to "manufacturing defects" - wear and tear to be repaired for a charge.

Is this so?

If so, am not interested.

As have the idea that we are talking a design issue here, not a manufacturing cock-up with said design.

Sweep wrote: ↑3 Aug 2022, 12:56pm
edit - hang about - a quick google just suggests that they only offer a 5 year guarantee on their mats - related to "manufacturing defects" - wear and tear to be repaired for a charge.

Is this so?

If so, am not interested.

As have the idea that we are talking a design issue here, not a manufacturing cock-up with said design.

AIUI delamination (which is the main issue) is a manufacturing defect - it isn't meant to happen.

horizon wrote: ↑3 Aug 2022, 1:07pm

Sweep wrote: ↑3 Aug 2022, 12:56pm
edit - hang about - a quick google just suggests that they only offer a 5 year guarantee on their mats - related to "manufacturing defects" - wear and tear to be repaired for a charge.

Is this so?

If so, am not interested.

As have the idea that we are talking a design issue here, not a manufacturing cock-up with said design.

AIUI delamination (which is the main issue) is a manufacturing defect - it isn't meant to happen.

But only covered for that for first five years?
During which time of course it may not get much use of course.

As an outside observer, I read so much about this delamination that I can't help but think that it is somewhat related to design. Either that or they have some serious manufacturing issues.
I take it they have no plans to launch a range of tyres/liferafts?

(not getting at you I stress horizon)

Sweep wrote: ↑3 Aug 2022, 12:56pm edit - hang about - a quick google just suggests that they only offer a 5 year guarantee on their mats - related to "manufacturing defects" - wear and tear to be repaired for a charge.

Which manufacturer are you talking about, there's several mentioned in this thread.
Their warranty terms vary, but there's enough of them offering lifetime warranties to make that a consideration when choosing.

PH wrote: ↑3 Aug 2022, 4:45pm

Sweep wrote: ↑3 Aug 2022, 12:56pm edit - hang about - a quick google just suggests that they only offer a 5 year guarantee on their mats - related to "manufacturing defects" - wear and tear to be repaired for a charge.

Which manufacturer are you talking about, there's several mentioned in this thread.
Their warranty terms vary, but there's enough of them offering lifetime warranties to make that a consideration when choosing.

Exped PH, as in thread title:

From what I take to be their own webpage:

>>>

All EXPED products carry a 5 year warranty on defects in materials and workmanship.

At our discretion, EXPED will repair or replace any part that fails due to a manufacturing defect. Failures due to normal wear, negligence, and acts of nature can usually be repaired for a nominal charge.

>>>

acts of nature and wear and tear includes sleeping on it I assume.

Sweep wrote: ↑3 Aug 2022, 5:08pm

PH wrote: ↑3 Aug 2022, 4:45pm

Sweep wrote: ↑3 Aug 2022, 12:56pm edit - hang about - a quick google just suggests that they only offer a 5 year guarantee on their mats - related to "manufacturing defects" - wear and tear to be repaired for a charge.

Which manufacturer are you talking about, there's several mentioned in this thread.
Their warranty terms vary, but there's enough of them offering lifetime warranties to make that a consideration when choosing.

Exped PH, as in thread title:

Thanks, but yes I was able to read the title
Also mentioned within this thread:
Sea to Summit - Lifetime warranty
Nemo - Lifetime warranty

PH wrote: ↑3 Aug 2022, 5:34pm

Sweep wrote: ↑3 Aug 2022, 5:08pm

PH wrote: ↑3 Aug 2022, 4:45pm
Which manufacturer are you talking about, there's several mentioned in this thread.
Their warranty terms vary, but there's enough of them offering lifetime warranties to make that a consideration when choosing.

Exped PH, as in thread title:

Thanks, but yes I was able to read the title
Also mentioned within this thread:
Sea to Summit - Lifetime warranty
Nemo - Lifetime warranty

will check out.
any, er, holes, in the Sea to Summit warranty?
(sorry, tend to be a bit wary of anything that smacks of insurance.)

needless to say, Exped pricey stuff is off my list.

Sweep wrote: ↑3 Aug 2022, 5:36pm [any, er, holes, in the Sea to Summit warranty?

Hopefully I'll never be in a position to be able to answer that. They made quite a big thing about it when they changed construction, so they must be pretty confident and would look pretty foolish if they didn't back it up. As with most warranties it only covers defective materials and manufacture, but delamination, which is the only failure you regularly hear about, ought to be covered by that.